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Even if you don't, why aren't you using the many 3rd party table tops? It's not like the 4E rules are even going to be referenced in the virtual table top. We know for a fact they won't. Since you seem to have no interest in the other DDI bits, why bother to subscribe when you can get what you want elsewhere?
You are right of course. A friend interstate called up all excited about the DDI wanting to know if the tabletop was live. He was keen to get the old group back together. I told him it was vapour ware but that there were some other tools I that might do the trick. I emailed him a link. He seemed unimpressed holding out hope for an official D&D tabletop, he'd seen the demo with the torch radius and figures and was very impressed. The demo promised a lot of things existing virtual tabletops didn't. As he was our old DM he held alot of sway with getting the old gang back together.
I need to download map tools and have a tinker. Maybe if I know what I am doing I can convince him to give it a go. If its not too resource hungry we should be able to get the expat in the group joining in.
Thanks Glyfair and Asmor, you've made me reconsider the 3rd party tabletop idea.
Last edited by Monkey Boy; 6th January 2009 at 03:11 AM..
Eventually you will get it (I would bet by the end of the year).
I wouldn't count on it, and I don't see anything to base such optimism on. Their track record is, to-date, awful (you cite the character generator as a success - it isn't even released yet!), and the last Ampersand column makes it sound like they may be abandoning some projects.
"In very short order, the D&D Character Builder goes live... After that… well, we’re working on that. We had grand plans and we were overly ambitious in what could actually be accomplished in the time we had. We don’t want to overextend or overpromise anymore. We’re going to finish the D&D Character Builder, then take stock of where we are and what we can and should concentrate on next."
I wouldn't count on it, and I don't see anything to base such optimism on. Their track record is, to-date, awful (you cite the character generator as a success - it isn't even released yet!), and the last Ampersand column makes it sound like they may be abandoning some projects.
"In very short order, the D&D Character Builder goes live... After that… well, we’re working on that. We had grand plans and we were overly ambitious in what could actually be accomplished in the time we had. We don’t want to overextend or overpromise anymore. We’re going to finish the D&D Character Builder, then take stock of where we are and what we can and should concentrate on next."
I personally am skeptical that the virtual table top makes good business sense. It doesn't synergize well with the rest of the DDI offerings (ie, the compendium works well as a portal for previously published monsters, feat, etc; the Character builder looks like it will do the same for characters). The work done to develop a race, feat, item, etc gets used in several locations. The character visualizer and VTT don't share in that. At best, it might pull from work already done for the dungeon tiles and minis lines, but I'm not sure about that.
In addition, I'm not sure that the marginal dollar chasing is worth it (relative to better fleshing out of the magazines, updates to the compendium, etc or even in other DnD product lines). The cost of DDI would have to go up if they offer the VTT (as wotc has hinted several times). But the VTT's extra revenue will only be from people who won't use Maptools but will use an official WotC product minus the subscribers for whom the extra cost is too much. Are there that many people who won't use maptools but would use the VTT?
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
Given that the character builder doesn't look to be out in full till February at this point, the Game Table is still vaporware, and they've given no timetable at all for when to expect it even as a public Beta.
what makes you say Feb...I see them on track for the Jan relase date...
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrowwight
I think I read that WOTC has no people working on DDI. Just one evil monkey that spends most of his time in a fat kids closet. Sad thing is, he wasn't always evil...
man now they have an evil monkey...see that is getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by &
"In very short order, the D&D Character Builder goes live... After that… well, we’re working on that. We had grand plans and we were overly ambitious in what could actually be accomplished in the time we had. We don’t want to overextend or overpromise anymore. We’re going to finish the D&D Character Builder, then take stock of where we are and what we can and should concentrate on next."
that tells me they are aware of the problmes and taking baby steps...not that they are shutting anything down.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I personally am skeptical that the virtual table top makes good business sense. It doesn't synergize well with the rest of the DDI offerings (ie, the compendium works well as a portal for previously published monsters, feat, etc; the Character builder looks like it will do the same for characters). The work done to develop a race, feat, item, etc gets used in several locations. The character visualizer and VTT don't share in that. At best, it might pull from work already done for the dungeon tiles and minis lines, but I'm not sure about that.
In addition, I'm not sure that the marginal dollar chasing is worth it (relative to better fleshing out of the magazines, updates to the compendium, etc or even in other DnD product lines). The cost of DDI would have to go up if they offer the VTT (as wotc has hinted several times). But the VTT's extra revenue will only be from people who won't use Maptools but will use an official WotC product minus the subscribers for whom the extra cost is too much. Are there that many people who won't use maptools but would use the VTT?
That is unless they make it so that you can only play things like Living Forgotten Realms online using their VTT or something, using characters generated using their character generator.
I love Maptools, but I wish it had some stuff like what they are promising with the WoTC VTT, like tight integration with the other online products (e.g. characters from the char gen, monsters from the dungeon magazine, etc) so that there is little to no data entry.
I just subscribed to DDI after reading that the compendium lets you access ALL monsters, not just those in the books. Even LFR monsters are listed... very handy.
That is unless they make it so that you can only play things like Living Forgotten Realms online using their VTT or something, using characters generated using their character generator.
I love Maptools, but I wish it had some stuff like what they are promising with the WoTC VTT, like tight integration with the other online products (e.g. characters from the char gen, monsters from the dungeon magazine, etc) so that there is little to no data entry.
As far as I know, there was never any talk of integration of any sort. At best, your info from your character sheet would let you roll the dice and add up the numbers. But wotc said that the VTT did not adjudicate any rules, thus, no tight integration.
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
"In very short order, the D&D Character Builder goes live... After that… well, we’re working on that. We had grand plans and we were overly ambitious in what could actually be accomplished in the time we had. We don’t want to overextend or overpromise anymore. We’re going to finish the D&D Character Builder, then take stock of where we are and what we can and should concentrate on next."
I don't subscribe to the DDI so I didn't hear about the above till now, but... *wince* That sounds like they're setting folks up for a let down when for when they start dropping aspects of the originally promised DDI.
It's sad that they're even in this sort of position with the late/unreleased portions. There were members of the old admin WizO team that could have coded the DDI themselves, given their background, and WotC let them go (or they resigned during the Gleemax drama).
__________________ "I can just see the 4e adventure anthology "Tale from the Limited Staircase"." - Ken Marable
As far as I know, there was never any talk of integration of any sort.
The character visualizer is supposed to be integrated with both the CharGen program and the VTT. However, that is as far as the links were supposed to go.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
What I wonder about re: The Game Table ... is ... why?
I mean, if WOW wanted to create a game table, couldn't they put together something that would be light years ahead of what WotC was considering?
They could probably put together a table of abilities and icons and animations along with a table of creatures (and their animations) that would seriously kick butt.
They should also be able to create a "tile set" usable for creating dungeons rather quickly.
(As an aside, I've wondered what Blizzard would do if D&D ever really started having an online presence ... that would seem to be a strong motivation for Blizzard to simply squash WotC out of the online gaming market.)
(As an aside, I've wondered what Blizzard would do if D&D ever really started having an online presence ... that would seem to be a strong motivation for Blizzard to simply squash WotC out of the online gaming market.)
Ignore them, like it does with the other MMO companies?
I can't imagine Blizzard ever feeling remotely threatened by WoTC. They've probably made more off WoW since its release than the last ten years of D&D.
With regards to the actual release of the Tabletop.... Well, after Chinese Democracy managed to actually get released (albeit after 14 years...) I guess anything's possible.
__________________ It doesn't matter how gimped the class may be, people will always play Rangers. Saying "I'm a Ranger" in fantasy gaming is kinda like saying "I'm Batman."
"I have no silver gifts for thee,
No scented words nor frankincense:
Only this love, that burns in me
Like a vain fire in valleys whence
The sun has flown beyond the sea."
-Clark Ashton Smith, 'The Song at Evenfall'
"Oh pick up flutes and fiddles, a new tune is beginning
A melody forsaken, on the chords of our elders' song
Each note is telling a story, a fragment of existence."
-Elvenking, 'Oakenshield'
I mean, if WOW wanted to create a game table, couldn't they put together something that would be light years ahead of what WotC was considering?
Sure. They have the money. They could.
However, since they would have no hope of getting the money invested back, or even part of it. I know it's traditional to assume that WotC is skimping and not giving us even part of what we are "owed." However, we really aren't a blip on their radar, except as patrons of their game model. They don't want to delve into ours.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
Didn't the makers of Fantasy Grounds file suit against WotC over some element of the game table?
Some research shows it was just a cease and desist letter because WotC apparently used an image from the Fantasy Grounds website (the dice roller program). Not an actual part of the program.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
For those recommending alternatives, please don't forget about the excellent Klooge.Werks!
I really, really wanted to love Klooge. It has exactly every function that I'm interested in in a 2d VTT. But my group found it to be terribly unstable. We had continued problems getting it up and running, and it frequently crashed out during our games. Eventually, we had to give it up.
I'm using d20pro now, and it fulfills my needs.
I'm counting the WotC VTT as vaporware until I've actually played a game with it. It looks to me like they wanted to leap ahead of the existing VTT's by going 3D, adding light effects and adding some animation. In retrospect, they bit off more than they could chew, and would have been better off going with a less-ambitious product.
I personally am skeptical that the virtual table top makes good business sense...
In addition, I'm not sure that the marginal dollar chasing is worth it (relative to better fleshing out of the magazines, updates to the compendium, etc or even in other DnD product lines).
One of the biggest "flaws" tabletop RPGs have compaired to MMOs is that you need to have a group willing to play the game with you.
By offering a VTT someone who just got the game can log on and get into a game in almost no time.
They won't have to spend a lot of time looking for a group, convincing peple to play, or any other number of things that could cause said future player to say: "Screw this Warcraft is easier."
Works for any gamer looking for a game as well. You could live in east bumbleschmuk and still find gamers willing to game.
The two biggest elements I see in it';s favor are:
1. The lobby- Most (all?) of the online game tools I;ve seen so far seem to need everyone involved to already know eachother. Someone is a host and everyone logs into his game etc... A lobby means you can simply log on, and say: "hey lets game."
2. It's on the WoTC website- Since the game is made by WoTC thats probably the first place someone will go looking for more info on the game. Which means more people seeing the fact that you can get into a game almost instantly.
Eventually you will get it (I would bet by the end of the year).
I can't remember where I read it, but I believe someone at WOTC said specifically not to expect it in 2009. From memory, I believe it was said that although the game table was mostly working, that it had severe stability issues. There was something about the fact that it was programmed by a 3rd party company without any sort of DRM and that there was an attempt by WOTC to add that feature into the program. It was causing large amounts of stability issues. WOTC wanted to verify that you were "authorized" to access each mini, stat block, map, and object on the screen. The idea is that they might want to sell minis or maps(either 2d copies or 3d copies), plus they wanted to allow you to search the compendium for information and attach stat blocks to minis. This would be allowed if you were paying for DDI but not if you were a "guest" user.
And, from what I heard, there were some fundamental issues with the way the program was written that made it easier to rewrite almost ALL the underlying code in order to get these rights working rather than attempt to fix it. Since it appeared to be such a large amount of work, they felt that it was best to put their effort into the character generator and visualizer.
So, the current plan appears to be Character Creator in "very early" 2009 with the implication that it'll be in the last 2 weeks of January. Then the visualizer appears to be mostly completed and likely it'll come next. After that, WOTC appears to be making no promises at all, except that we shouldn't expect the Game Table in 2009(in any form at all, including beta).
__________________ Majoru Oakheart
Secret Attorney of the Guidelines for the <Sorry, you didn't make the DC 20 Perception check, and you don't have another minor action to try again. Next time try finding an Elf to stand nearby you.>
And, from what I heard, there were some fundamental issues with the way the program was written that made it easier to rewrite almost ALL the underlying code in order to get these rights working rather than attempt to fix it.
Then why not fix the REAL problem and make it cross-platform compatible from the start?
__________________
My Games
Into the Land of Black Ice (retired) - An arctic PbP adventure in the mysterious frozen lands of Oerth
Penance of the Damned (retired) - A planar chat-based game, set in Hades, where the PCs began as larvae
Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor'alq (retired) - A mid-level PbP campaign set within the Dramidj Ocean Heirs of Turucambi - An entry-level chat-based game set within the waters of Turucambi Reef in the Oljatt Sea Nature of the Beast (in design) - A sylvan adventure where the adventurers are forest animals.
I see the game table as an investment for Wizards that they need to make good on before 4E is too deep into its life-cycle. In any case, they're designing it system-neutral so once it's up and running it should pay dividends through this edition and beyond.
I will expect it when I see it. I agree with the earlier poster who said that the GenCon and subsequent videos showed an app that seemed solid; the fact we haven't heard anything more about it could simply mean that they've diverted resources to other parts of the insider package. In any case, I've got what I really wanted out of the digital initiative, in the form of the compendium, the character builder, and the magazines, all of which are currently supreme value for money. If the VTT comes along, works well, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I might dabble in another online game, but I won't lose any sleep over it if I don't!
__________________ "The last time I ran into myself, I kicked my own ass." Chasing the DM, a blog for DM's like me who really feel they should know what they're doing by now.
For DM's: 4E Dungeon Index (adventures, conversions, and sidetreks by level, last updated 16th Oct. through Dungeon #171).
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