General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
The beta looks good, but there are lots of little data errors in it, and - it's only a crippled demo. If we're going to judge the project by the beta, well, then it fails soley on the basis of the level 3 cap. Like guivre says, you can't label it a success when the actual product doesn't exist yet.
Whether you are optimistic or pessimistic about the chances of that probably depend largely on how much stock you put into WotC's past failures with digital products.
I don't think it will ever come out. Despite all the fanfare that I saw it get at DDXP.
I think WOTC laid off some of the software people a few months ago too.
Mike
__________________ "I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for The One. We die for The One." Marcus, Babylon 5
It is probably too late in the thread to offer a long winded opinion and have it be read by anyone. Too bad. The issue for me is that they've wasted time on minor applications or gimicky elements that I don't think I or the folks I game with even care about.
The character generator is awesome. Seriously. I'll use it. If I could only buy each of my players access to it, the rules compendium, and a player's only seat at virtual tabletop for a reasonable price... Perhaps if I had the virtual tabletop I could justify the current price.
I've outlined some ideas on the Wizards forums (username Hildy) for what needs to happen to make the encounter generator a full fledged DM's counterpart to the character generator. The kind of app DM's would pay for and spend hours each week using.
The last major piece I would need in place is the virtual tabletop. I've been promised it and now I want it dangit. Here is the thing. I never wanted a 3D environment with almost no rules integration. I want a tabletop... like Fantasy Grounds. That app offers amazing integration of rules without playing the game for you. Seriously, check out the 4e ruleset tutorials. Wizards needs to buy or license it now, complete the integration of the 4e ruleset, and maybe add some support for official Dungeon Tiles and maps from Dragon magazine so folks don't feel like they have to be digital art masters to get a nice map. I'd have to think they could have this ready inside of the year, if not before summer.
I'd be using fantasy grounds now if I could figure out how to compile the rules. I'm half tempted to find someone locally who can do it, have them come over and verify my books, and then pay them for their time to generate the files for me. Did I mention that I really want my virtual tabletop sooner than later? *sigh*
There are plenty of people who know how to do the whole client server thing. I've even created simple web services that took me 10mins to find out how to do it - that obviously wouldn't cut the mustard with this app - but still..
They have already done the 3D engine, it's not like they need an intensivly fast realtime engine. At the same time why hasn't the visualizer been finished. It is just a collection of models and textures bunged together by a menu.
As for the rest of it - 4E is built for simplistic logic design. A lot of the annoyances have been taken out - such as circular area effects - that would be more tricky(er) to program with edge detection and such like - though probably not to someone with better/professional programming skills than me.
I can only assume the table will use the classes (programming not D&D) from the builder so they want to make sure that is stable and working before moving all that stuff into the table app.
I was dabbling with making one with a 2D interface, but I have other stuff to do so it would take ages, and when they announced the table I thought - well no point now, they are going to make one a damn site better than I could.
It's very poor of WOTC to hype the game table up so much as being a big plus point for 4th edition and then not deliver for years. It's obvious the 4th edition game has been designed to be ported to a computer environment. But still no game table.
Six months late, is passable but this, no way, it's very poor.
Very very poor, there are lots and lots of other good RPG systems out there and people are starting to move to them.
WOTC you need to try harder to give the people what they want.
Last edited by Thandren; 24th February 2009 at 08:42 PM..
It's very poor of WOTC to hype the game table up so much as being a big plus point for 4th edition and then not deliver for years.
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Six months late, is passable but this, no way, it's very poor.
are you kidding???
I keep seeing this here and at WotC site...I belive that the 4e books came out in june 2008...it is feb 2009 that is 8 months...but people keep saying these things are YEARS laate...it is only months...not even a year yet...
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I keep seeing this here and at WotC site...I belive that the 4e books came out in june 2008...it is feb 2009 that is 8 months...but people keep saying these things are YEARS laate...it is only months...not even a year yet...
Which people keep saying that these things are YEARS late?
It's not acceptable, because a fake bill of goods was sold to their customers. A product was promised and now it isn't (& might never) be available. I enjoy 4e, but haven't (and have no plans on) subscribing to DDI, until they offer the features in their entirety.
If I missed a deadline at work by a few days, my @SS is on a platter, but at WOTC they've missed it by 8 months and nobody's mentioning it.
P.S. I work in software development, we don't get YEARS-worth of extensions...
It's not acceptable, because a fake bill of goods was sold to their customers.
You were sold the game table, the game table wasn't delivered, so you deserve, no you SHOULD DEMAND, a full refund.
So, let's see, you paid $0 for the game table, and you were refunded $0, so looks like everything was balanced out.
Now, in back over here in reality, I saw WotC offer DDI up contained Dragon and Dungeon magazines, the compendium, and bonus tools. Thats what was originally offered. That is what I bought. They've since given me the character builder, without charging me more.
So it seems like I'm making out like a bandit with what I was sold, and you recieved a complete and total refund on the game table that you were "sold".
You also mentioned that you are in software, so you are fully aware of the term "vaporware", and fully know to not believe anything until you see it.
[quote=renau1g;4682115]It's not acceptable, because a fake bill of goods was sold to their customers. A product was promised and now it isn't (& might never) be available. I enjoy 4e, but haven't (and have no plans on) subscribing to DDI, until they offer the features in their entirety.[/qoute]
I don't know. I mean I agree they overstated their promo stuff, but I knew exactly what I was getting when I bought my DDI subscription... I don't think they sold me a fake bill of goods.
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If I missed a deadline at work by a few days, my @SS is on a platter, but at WOTC they've missed it by 8 months and nobody's mentioning it.
Does your company also publicly announce whose asses are on the proverbial platters every time? I'm guessing a whole lot of people in the DDI department got themselves a nice big reaming. Ouch.
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P.S. I work in software development, we don't get YEARS-worth of extensions...
So what do you do if you discover you NEED those years to make a product that works as planned? Just release a crappy half/assed product instead?
You were sold the game table, the game table wasn't delivered, so you deserve, no you SHOULD DEMAND, a full refund.
So, let's see, you paid $0 for the game table, and you were refunded $0, so looks like everything was balanced out.
Now, in back over here in reality, I saw WotC offer DDI up contained Dragon and Dungeon magazines, the compendium, and bonus tools. Thats what was originally offered. That is what I bought. They've since given me the character builder, without charging me more.
So it seems like I'm making out like a bandit with what I was sold, and you recieved a complete and total refund on the game table that you were "sold".
You also mentioned that you are in software, so you are fully aware of the term "vaporware", and fully know to not believe anything until you see it.
Sorry, but look at the back of your PHB... doesn't that contain an option that was sold with the $30 book...?
Also, what was originally offered, if you go back to their launch of the Digital Initiative, is a Virtual Tabletop as the centerpiece of their initiative.
As I said previous, I really enjoy the 4e books, and hear great things about Dungeon & Dragon and the builder, but it seems that missed deadlines and missing features are acceptable to some people. If you're happy with mediocrity that's fine, but I guess I was hoping for a bit more from Wizard's attempt to jump back into the Digital water's after their last failure.
Just because I'm aware of vapourware, doesn't mean I have to like it. It's like saying an accountant should be ok with cooking the books, because he's in the business...
It's not acceptable, because a fake bill of goods was sold to their customers. A product was promised and now it isn't (& might never) be available. I enjoy 4e, but haven't (and have no plans on) subscribing to DDI, until they offer the features in their entirety.[/qoute]
I don't know. I mean I agree they overstated their promo stuff, but I knew exactly what I was getting when I bought my DDI subscription... I don't think they sold me a fake bill of goods.
Maybe I used too strong of a sentiment, but when I said that I meant their original material, not once they started charging $ for the subscription.
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Originally Posted by Scribble
Does your company also publicly announce whose asses are on the proverbial platters every time? I'm guessing a whole lot of people in the DDI department got themselves a nice big reaming. Ouch.
No, but we're not a public company either.
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Originally Posted by Scribble
So what do you do if you discover you NEED those years to make a product that works as planned? Just release a crappy half/assed product instead?
I'll be honest, we've never had this issue... I can't imagine how something could get this far off track, especially based on the demos displayed previously.
As I said previous, I really enjoy the 4e books, and hear great things about Dungeon & Dragon and the builder, but it seems that missed deadlines and missing features are acceptable to some people. If you're happy with mediocrity that's fine, but I guess I was hoping for a bit more from Wizard's attempt to jump back into the Digital water's after their last failure.
I'm fine with missed deadlines so long as I'm not being charged for them.
If I paid WoTC money with the understanding that they would provide me with a virtual tabletop... and then none was delivered, I'd be rightfully upset.
Good companies push back releases if there's problems.
Bad companies go ahead and release software with problems because they don't want to push back the release date.
Good companies hit their release dates jk
Seriously though, Betheseda is considered by many to be a good company, yet their Elder Scrolls series & Fallout 3 game were released and full of crash-worthy bugs...
Maybe I used too strong of a sentiment, but when I said that I meant their original material, not once they started charging $ for the subscription.
Shrug. Ads and promos don't mean much to me. I only care about what I get for my money. Again if they charged me 15 dollars and told me I could use the Virtual Table, and then when I logged on it said, oh crap it's not ready it'll be there soon, but we're still going to charge you for use of the table... I'd be madder then a cat in a bathtub...
But they didn't do that. They said we want to include the tabletop, but it's not done. We have these other features you might be interested in at a reduced price.
Those other features interested me, and I felt the price more then reasonable. Nothing fishy about the situation.
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No, but we're not a public company either.
Just because they're a public company doesn't mean every business move is in a glass window. Again I'm sure behind closed doors a bunch of people have a much easier time on the can now...
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I'll be honest, we've never had this issue... I can't imagine how something could get this far off track, especially based on the demos displayed previously.
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