General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
(Almost) all powers have to be put together from these building blocks, Lego style. The short-range teleport is such a basic building block. "Illusion", or "Glamour" isn't - if you make an illusion power it has to be built from other blocks. See e.g. the illusionist spells that were published in Dragon. Instead the fact that it is an illusion is put into the cursive flavour text - but it's not part of the game mechanics.
This may be true... except that many monsters have invisibility powers, and hey, there's the gnome arcanist, with "illusion" based powers.
Besides. THere are other things. The Feyborn Template has the "Unnatural Beauty" thing that makes people attack someone else or not attack. There are mind effecting powers in the Fey stuff, they're just few and far between. They are there. Just underused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbartender
Look at it this way...
I understand that. It just doesn't feel fey to me. It still feels like they just picked something at random like "Teleporting faeries! That's the theme!"
I recognize the theme WotC went for, as it has been spelled out here. I just don't think it fits. It's more tacked-on than appropriate.
I recognize the theme WotC went for, as it has been spelled out here. I just don't think it fits. It's more tacked-on than appropriate.
Fair enough.
__________________ The Pbartender
"I don't believe it. There she goes again! She's tidied up, and I can't find anything! All my tubes and wires and careful notes and antiquated notions..." - Thomas Dolby
Well fey never seemed like the type who sat still. They are always flying around, climbing on things, or going somewhere in many forms of media that I've seen. Any the fey who weren't hopping and blinking here and there really didn't care about much except for that one thing. They mostly walked right past or through everything else. Add in that many fey have more than a hint of obssession of certain things.
The best way to get where you really want to be without dealing with the messy bits between is to teleport or turn invisible.
Indeed. But... if that is the case, if the notion is 'they're always movin' and shakin' and you can't hold on to them!' then why is it they can only teleport once per encounter?
You'd think that if you want to hammer home that theme, then they would be able to do it more than once.
I think another problem is the use of the word "teleport" itself. In general, it's a word that's associated with sci-fi, Star Trek and science.
In D&D, that fit pretty well with the very formal nature arcane magic had in the previous editions (i.e. Vancian magic) - more a scientific than a wondrous concept.
I actually don't mind it, oddly. Not a 4e fan, but there's nothing about the Fey Step and such that really bugs me that much.
Is it that common among 4e fey anyway? All I can remember from reading the 4e MM is the Dryad having. . . Treestride(?), which strikes me as fine; good, even. Oh, and the Eladrin of course. Er. . . I guess there probably a bunch in the new Dragon articles then, or I'm just not remembering enough details of the MM.
Space and time simply don't work for the fey quite the same way they do for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual of the Planes
"The trip from the eladrin outpost of Aedonni to the Council Warren takes three days less than the trip from the Council Warren to Aedonni. Absolutely no one who makes the trip can explain why.
__________________ In California? Enjoy gaming? Then you don't want to miss PolyCon.
Space and time simply don't work for the fey quite the same way they do for us.
Like many things this is just giving an explanation of how it might work, but doesn't really address the issue of why it was done in the first place. I don't remember it being mentioned in 'Races and Classes' or 'Worlds and Monsters' but it might be worth checking up in there.
However, unless a designer decides to chip in I think we are unlikely to deduce where the 'feyport' trope came from.
Cheers
__________________ Plane Sailing
(Enworld Admin)
If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
However, unless a designer decides to chip in I think we are unlikely to deduce where the 'feyport' trope came from
I know that some contemporary literature (e.g. Dennis L. McKiernan's Mithgar novels), other roleplaying games (e.g., Changeling, Powers & Perils, etc), and even folklore make heavy allusions to the 'otherworld' of fairies being a different realm or world of existence that is not our own Earth.
I think that Pbartender and others are probably dead on in assuming that the mechanical convention of teleporting is simply used to represent supernatural travel to and from this realm or related lands of wonder. Such travel across realms is, after all, a common staple of fairie creatures in other works.
I don't know why that seems so incredulous to some posters.
I don't know why that seems so incredulous to some posters.
I think the difference is seen between "teleport 5 squares" and "shift to a different plane of existence". It might be ignoring that at least since 3E, these both were related effects (Teleportation descriptor). (I don't know if such a thing exist before 3E.)
Teleportation seems to fit Fey just fine - fey do have the habit of appearing in places you don't expect them to.
Just one thing: I think some Vampires need this feature, too. For example, Angel had the habit of doing the "disappear from sight" trick. Guy (or gal) turns around for a moment, turns back, Angel is gone. Unheard and unseen - a quick teleport could explain that, too - possibly better then merely invisibility or a good stealth check.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
I sort of get it. I think it's based on the idea that fey can pop up anywhere, vanish when you take your eyes off them, leave tracks that mysteriously vanish in the woods, and that sort of thing.
This is how I see it too. This + live in another world = teleportation.
What I do find odd is eladrin being somehow more strongly associated with the feywild than elves. Thematically, "wood elves" would seem to fit better with the wilderness, satyrs and the new dryad than "froofy magical elves"
Now I like the feywild and shadowfell concepts but elves=feywild, eladrin=arvandor, drow=demonweb would make more sense.
What can I say, I like symmetry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechan
If that's the explanation, then they wuoldn't be able to use it while in the Feywild, because that's the place they "step into" when they teleport.
This is particularly jarring when I look at the Feypact warlock. It just doesn't behave mysteriously or anything on the battlemat. It's just "My curse guy died - now I move 3."
This is one problem I have with 4e powers. They make sense mechanically. Thematically not so much (to me, that is.) It's like the "hurling through hell" thing. Wouldn't it seem easier to just leave your ennemy there?
It's not clear either why you can't stay on the other side (or be attacked from there) when you feystep. Maybe there is some ethereal border thing going on between the feywild and the natural world, accessible from both sides but that you don't cross completely when you feystep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechan
Indeed. But... if that is the case, if the notion is 'they're always movin' and shakin' and you can't hold on to them!' then why is it they can only teleport once per encounter?
I’d say for the same reasons you have martial encounter powers. Not that I like them, mind you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully
Just one thing: I think some Vampires need this feature, too. For example, Angel had the habit of doing the "disappear from sight" trick. Guy (or gal) turns around for a moment, turns back, Angel is gone. Unheard and unseen - a quick teleport could explain that, too - possibly better then merely invisibility or a good stealth check.
Teleportation would be via the Shadowfell then (I did say I liked symmetry ) But then again, this effect could as well be explained as an illusion or by the vampire’s mind affecting powers.
__________________
_ Ceterum censeo the encounter/daily power system is an unholy blight upon D&Ddom
5e can't come soon enough
Last edited by lutecius; 14th January 2009 at 11:45 AM..
Just one thing: I think some Vampires need this feature, too. For example, Angel had the habit of doing the "disappear from sight" trick. Guy (or gal) turns around for a moment, turns back, Angel is gone. Unheard and unseen - a quick teleport could explain that, too - possibly better then merely invisibility or a good stealth check.
Wait... So, if the, "you look back and their gone" is teleportation... Batman is a FEY!
__________________ Secret Member of... *blink, blink* Damn you amnesia!
Wait... So, if the, "you look back and their gone" is teleportation... Batman is a FEY!
They're always after his Lucky Charms!
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
Wait... So, if the, "you look back and they're gone" is teleportation... Batman is a FEY!
What does that say about Horatio Caine from CSI: Miami, then? He, seemingly, has the power to appear in people's vicinity without them noticing him arriving!
__________________ DM of Adventure Path Story Hour (now in Thunderspire Labyrinth!): Ryam Plays Dice - updated 8th June 09 (campaign on indefinite hiatus).
Player in Swordlands Story Hour: Interview with a Fey - updated 15th June 09. News just in - this campaign may be restarting in the near future! Watch this space!
I also have the singular honour of being Rouseketeer #20.
Wait... So, if the, "you look back and their gone" is teleportation... Batman is a FEY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew_Freeman
What does that say about Horatio Caine from CSI: Miami, then? He, seemingly, has the power to appear in people's vicinity without them noticing him arriving!
It's a common trope. I should have thought of Batman, of course.
But comeone - Bats, Vampires, they are closely related. Batman is probably a Damphyr.
I suppose "Shadowstep" (= Fey Step) should become a Bloodline replacement power for a 2nd level Utility. (Yes, Dhampyr Eladrin teleport a lot - so what?)
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
For a good treatment of the Fey, look in Tad William's books Memory, Sorrow and Thorn as the Sithi seem to be very like the 4E version of the Eladrin, save that they are more feral.
__________________ I don't know half of you, half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve!
What does that say about Horatio Caine from CSI: Miami, then? He, seemingly, has the power to appear in people's vicinity without them noticing him arriving!
This is one problem I have with 4e powers. They make sense mechanically. Thematically not so much (to me, that is.) It's like the "hurling through hell" thing. Wouldn't it seem easier to just leave your ennemy there?
It's not clear either why you can't stay on the other side (or be attacked from there) when you feystep. Maybe there is some ethereal border thing going on between the feywild and the natural world, accessible from both sides but that you don't cross completely when you feystep.
My thinking was that it was easy to open a portal for a second or two, enough to burn someone or move across a room, but very hard to keep that portal open for any length of time.
__________________ "If people bring so much courage to this world the world has to kill them to break them, so of course it kills them. The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry."
-- Ernest Hemingway, "A Farewell to Arms" Burning Empires:Boldaq Keep on the Shadowfell
My thinking was that it was easy to open a portal for a second or two, enough to burn someone or move across a room, but very hard to keep that portal open for any length of time.
That doesn't explain why you can't just leave your opponent on the other side when the portal closes. Or why you can't stay in the feywild. Sometimes being trapped there may be a better option than teleporting a few squares.
__________________
_ Ceterum censeo the encounter/daily power system is an unholy blight upon D&Ddom
5e can't come soon enough
) But then again, this effect could as well be explained as an illusion or by the vampire’s mind affecting powers.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
