General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
It's not too far off from RQ2. The AH version was developed by Chaosium before they started the publishing deal with AH. There are some changes, not all of them happy.
Defense has changed (now a roll like parry, rather than a subtraction from your opponent's attack).
Skills are no longer in nice 5% increments. You gain 1d6-1, IIRC when you get a skill gain.
A few subsystems are added. There is a very elegant, but unworkable fatigue system. It is simple in concept*, but unwieldy in practice (fatigue changes every round).
Here is a history of all the RQ versions (including the playtest, unreleased version of RQ4, which is floating around the net somewhere).
Also, here is the best site for getting the RQ reprints (and...has the complete list of all Glorantha products, at least prior to Mongoose).
* Start with a fatigue score, and subtract encumbrance. Each round you check off a fatigue point. When you reach negative you subtract that from all appropriate % rolls.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
Last edited by Glyfair; 27th January 2009 at 05:19 AM..
It's not too far off from RQ2. The AH version was developed by Chaosium before they started the publishing deal with AH. There are some changes, not all of them happy.
Defense has changed (now a roll like parry, rather than a subtraction from your opponent's attack).
Skills are no longer in nice 5% increments. You gain 1d6-1, IIRC when you get a skill gain.
A few subsystems are added. There is a very elegant, but unworkable fatigue system. It is simple in concept*, but unwieldy in practice (fatigue changes every round).
Here is a history of all the RQ versions (including the playtest, unreleased version of RQ4, which is floating around the net somewhere).
Also, here is the best site for getting the RQ reprints (and...has the complete list of all Glorantha products, at least prior to Mongoose).
* Start with a fatigue score, and subtract encumbrance. Each round you check off a fatigue point. When you reach negative you subtract that from all appropriate % rolls.
Good summary. We bought RQ3 but never used it because we didn't like the changes you mention above.
In addition, RQ3 largely divorced itself from the Gloranthan heritage, I think it removed Rune Lords and Rune Priest-Lords, it added a new 'sorcery' form of magic which seemed complex and open to abuse. The books were about twice as thick as the RQ2 books, but we felt that the added complications detracted from the game, and the simplifications of things like defence didn't fit with our 'vision' of the game - moved that element towards 'BRP' to no particular end.
The AH-published version of RQ introduced a lot of changes in detail, some of them often judged not so good even by folks who generally prefer it. It added whole sections of rules, but one can still ignore those for which one has no use. There is in sum an impression of greater complexity, due for instance to approaches that get down to single points rather than the old 4-number ability-score bands and 5% skill increments. Moreover, the physical quality of the rule books was notably inferior (saddle stapled, with flimsy cover stock) apart from one (perhaps only UK) perfect-bound edition. Despite my preference for 1st / 2nd, though, I would be delighted to play in a 3rd edition game!
A few months ago, I bought from several online shops two 1st edition books, a 2nd, Cults of Prax (1st) and Moon Design's Cult Compendium. It took a bit of looking (and might take some waiting in between such periods of wide availability), but I think I got much more "bang for buck" than I would have with the new Mongoose game.
That is an arbitrarily radical departure, and the errata don't "fix" some design choices that I find ill-considered quite apart from being strikingly different. The prices of the books relative to the amount and quality of material also do not seem to me good value.
Mongoose appears to have done a much better job with Traveller, chiefly by restraining the impulse to "improve" it. I have not looked at it in detail, but the new combat system (of which the Classic Traveller line already offered several) stood out as different. No doubt the ship construction rules and other systems are likewise changed. However, I suspect that a great deal of CT material would be easily usable with MGT. On the other hand, the FFE reprints (and the CD of PDFs) are quite good bargains -- and even original LBBs ("little black books") are not very expensive when one can find them. From a player's (rather than collector's) perspective, later printings may be preferable; I don't own The Traveller Book, but I wish I did!
Last edited by Ariosto; 30th January 2009 at 12:59 AM..
understood that the Mongoose RQ makes some changes to the game not everyone likes, but are the 'broken' aspects of it fixed with the errata? I understand the system itself is a bit different, with some changes that are not liked by some players, but are the broken things taken care of, or not?
I've decided to go with the Mongoose Traveller, and pick up those CD's of the Classic Traveller that Marc Miller has, just to get for my own personal reference since they are the ones I had myself as a kid... but I'm still up in the air on RQ. I would love to get the 2nd edition, because I played it myself, but I am not having much luck tracking down anything at the moment... 3rd edition sounds like it would be decent as well, but once again, not easy to track down (and I can remember 5+ years ago checking ebay once and seen tons of the AH RuneQuest boxed sets for fair prices, I wish I had snagged them!).
I thought I read there is a digital version of a 4e RQ that wasn't officially released, is that something that is obtainable on the net anywhere?
I thought I read there is a digital version of a 4e RQ that wasn't officially released, is that something that is obtainable on the net anywhere?
It was out there somewhere at one time. The problem with google right now is that 4th edition queries tend to get you buried in D&D sites that mention Runequest.
Just as a lark, here is Runequest Slayers. That is the system that Avalon Hill was going to release after they broke with Chaosium (and ended up keeping the rights to the Runequest name). Note it has NOTHING to do with any other version of RQ. It is free, though.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
but I'm still up in the air on RQ. I would love to get the 2nd edition, because I played it myself, but I am not having much luck tracking down anything at the moment...
Do you have a FLGS? If you have it would definitely be worth having a thumb through of the recent Basic Role Playing by Chaosium: Chaosium Inc.
It is much closer to RQ2 than RQ3 was, and would certainly be my first choice for running a RQ game if I didn't have my old, threadbare RQ2 rules. Even then, there are some things I'd borrow from it.
Cheers
__________________ Plane Sailing
(Enworld Admin)
If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
I haven't picked up the new BRP book yet, but I was in on the playtesting and from what I've read the final development put a real polish on it. One reason the rules are closer than Mongoose's is that Chaosium owns the copyrights on the previous editions of RQ (but not the trademark to the name, or any Glorantha rights). That's great for reproducing the old systems, or your own vision of "RQ IV" -- if you know what you're trying to match in the first place!
Mongoose had to "reverse engineer" their version of the game, without the benefit of something like the OGL and SRD that helped in making OSRIC and other "retro-clones." On top of that, sloppiness seems a hallmark of Mongoose's in-house game development (versus publication of works created elsewhere, such as Dragon Warriors). The Companion is probably a must-have item; there may be corrections in other supplements; and later printings may be better.
Mongoose's Glorantha material is set in the Second Age, prior to the era of the Hero Wars. Condradictions in "canon" are par for the course, given Greg Stafford's delight in presenting the world through the eyes of unreliable sources with their own agendas (like much real-world history). The treatment of many core aspects (such as the Runes, IIRC) may be needlessly confusing, though.
The reprints of RQ II supplements from Moon Designs are wonderful. The AH-published works are IMO inferior, but there's some nifty stuff when they go beyond being retreads -- and the Ken Rolston renaissance produced nice reworkings (plus new scenarios) in River of Cradles and Sun County.
There was very little geography and history in the old RQ basic rule book. The key touchstones therein (that one might miss as context for supplements) would be spells and monsters.
There was very little geography and history in the old RQ basic rule book. The key touchstones therein (that one might miss as context for supplements) would be spells and monsters.
True - although one of the wonderful things it had was the map of dragon pass filled with evocative names - for us that was the springboard for so many different adventures!
__________________ Plane Sailing
(Enworld Admin)
If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
I prefer the AH RQ, myself. As a bonus, they purged that nasty Glorantha nonsense.
Coming in here and making a comment like that when people clearly enjoyed Glorantha? Well, that's basically threadcrapping, which nets you a warning.
By all means join in with a substantive comment - your post would have been better if you had said "I prefer the AH RQ myself, because..." and then went on to explain what were the positive elements you enjoyed.
__________________ Plane Sailing
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If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
The Mongoose Traveller system (or MGT for short) lies closest to original Traveller in its design, but it has been streamlined for a more modern design.
Huh?
The game that lies closest to the original design is the original design, and it's still in print.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccoy1693
Its been updated to reflect a more modern sense of how the future will look (i.e. computers no longer take up tons of space).
Will this myth never die?
A "one displacement ton computer," which is the Model/1 you find on the ubiquitous Beowulf-class free trader, consists of a desk with a workstation and a chair. That's a "ton" of computer in Traveller.
And you can buy a hand computer with the same performance, but less withable to stand a hit from a 250 megawatt laser or a high-explosive missle, which is something a starship computer can manage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korgoth
The reprints of "classic" Traveller from Far Future Enterprises / Marc Miller are the old Traveller books, just like they were in the old days. The game still holds up exceedingly well after all these years and the other editions that I've seen (Mega, T4, D20 and Gurps... I haven't looked over the others) just don't hold a candle to the original. The original is a rules light, adaptable sci fi game that you can use for anything.
Yes.
I own roughly a displacement ton of original Traveller books (to me calling it "classic" is superfluous), supplements and so forth, and I also have the Mongoose edition core rules. The only reason I can see to buy the Mongoose version is if you insist on having a system which is presently supported by newly published material.
My recommendation is to get the two "classic" CD-ROMs: one disc contains the complete GDW canon (every rulebook, adventure, supplement, even every board game produced for Traveller) and the other disc contains the complete run of the Journal of the Travellers Aid Society, the Traveller magazine, which is also full of adventures, equipment, rules variants, and so forth. Each disc is U.S.$35.00, so for $70.00 (less than the Mongoose core rules plus one supplement) you can have roughly ten years of published material. I don't think there's a better deal in gaming, myself.
__________________ On weird fantasy: "The Otus/Elmore rule: When adding something new to the campaign, try and imagine how Erol Otus would depict it. If you can, that's far enough...it's a good idea. If you can picture a Larry Elmore version...it's far too mundane and boring, excise immediately." - Kellri, K&K Alehouse
The only reason I can see to buy the Mongoose version is if you insist on having a system which is presently supported by newly published material.
I could suggest another reason for getting the Mongoose rules (which is the reason I bought them) - the extended 'character generation' which gives more events, flavour, background NPCs and such. It is a great enhancement to the original traveller chargen IMO.
Cheers
__________________ Plane Sailing
(Enworld Admin)
If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
I could suggest another reason for getting the Mongoose rules (which is the reason I bought them) - the extended 'character generation' which gives more events, flavour, background NPCs and such. It is a great enhancement to the original traveller chargen IMO.
I find it repetitive and a bit bland myself, and I don't like how skills are handled compared to "classic" Traveller - Mongoose both devalues skills (characters earn lower skill levels) while simultaneously pumping up the number of skills learned.
I've also used house rules since, oh, 1980 or thereabouts, that allow characters to serve together and share assignments and I've long assigned zero-level skills for homeworld or branch of service, so Mongoose didn't really offer me anything that I didn't have already.
IMHO, YMMV, yadda, yadda, et cetera ad infinitum . . .
__________________ On weird fantasy: "The Otus/Elmore rule: When adding something new to the campaign, try and imagine how Erol Otus would depict it. If you can, that's far enough...it's a good idea. If you can picture a Larry Elmore version...it's far too mundane and boring, excise immediately." - Kellri, K&K Alehouse
Coming in here and making a comment like that when people clearly enjoyed Glorantha? Well, that's basically threadcrapping, which nets you a warning.
By all means join in with a substantive comment - your post would have been better if you had said "I prefer the AH RQ myself, because..." and then went on to explain what were the positive elements you enjoyed.
Yeah, I wasn't very clear. Purging Glorantha was actually a big reason I preferred RQ3; it was obviously always possible to ignore the Glorantha tie, so it's only a matter of flavour, but I didn't and don't like Glorantha and I do think that 'fantasy Europe' is the best setting for RQ. The way I posted it makes it appear to be incidental, but it actually wasn't (to me).
In addition, I liked the Sorcery stuff and I like 1d6-1.
__________________ In my bedroom in those ugly new houses
I danced my legs down to the knees
Yeah, I wasn't very clear. Purging Glorantha was actually a big reason I preferred RQ3; it was obviously always possible to ignore the Glorantha tie, so it's only a matter of flavour, but I didn't and don't like Glorantha and I do think that 'fantasy Europe' is the best setting for RQ. The way I posted it makes it appear to be incidental, but it actually wasn't (to me).
In addition, I liked the Sorcery stuff and I like 1d6-1.
Thanks for the clarification.
I liked the RQ2 system so much that I did conversions for Dark Sun, for a sci-fi setting, for Empire of the Petal Throne (and others). I loved it!
Personally the 1d6-1 was one of the things that I heartily disliked in RQ3 for a couple of reasons. One was the anticlimax (Great, I've de-ticked! Darn it, rolled a 1 so I don't go up at all), the other was that it slowed the rate of increase even more (since you typically went up 2-3% rather than 5%) and thirdly that two people could use their skills equally successfully over three adventures, both successfully de-tick and then one person ends up +15% up and the other is at nothing or +1% or something, which didn't seem fair).
Those were the reasons I disliked it - what did you like about the 1d6-1% for advancement?
Cheers
__________________ Plane Sailing
(Enworld Admin)
If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
I could suggest another reason for getting the Mongoose rules (which is the reason I bought them) - the extended 'character generation' which gives more events, flavour, background NPCs and such. It is a great enhancement to the original traveller chargen IMO.
Indeed. And to a lesser extent the unified skill system and much improved combat system.
There are other things I could take or leave... but I'm free to do so.
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
Personally the 1d6-1 was one of the things that I heartily disliked in RQ3 for a couple of reasons. One was the anticlimax (Great, I've de-ticked! Darn it, rolled a 1 so I don't go up at all), the other was that it slowed the rate of increase even more (since you typically went up 2-3% rather than 5%) and thirdly that two people could use their skills equally successfully over three adventures, both successfully de-tick and then one person ends up +15% up and the other is at nothing or +1% or something, which didn't seem fair).
Those were the reasons I disliked it - what did you like about the 1d6-1% for advancement?
Cheers
I liked the fact that it was slower, actually, although it obviously depends on when your GM decided it was time to try to increase the skills and it may be that we were more generous in that regard than were some. Also I'm a bit of a sucker for random elements (which is why, for example, I've never really liked point-buy for stats in most systems). I imagine it would have been a bigger deal to go from playing a lot of RQ2 to playing RQ3, but I mostly dabbled with RQ2 and was attracted into RQ3 (in part by the GW repackaging, although I already owned the AH version too). Also, I guess I was in AD&D 1e mode to some extent at the time and progression there was very slow in any case.
__________________ In my bedroom in those ugly new houses
I danced my legs down to the knees
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