General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Actually, I believe the main reason it's less expensive than the other two is that it's a single book. It's a BIGGER book, for sure, but it's generally less expensive to print and ship a single book than it is to do two books (although more expensive in both counts when compared to a single book). And on top of that, we ARE trying to keep the price as low as possible since it is indeed going to be the primary entry point into what Paizo's publishing pretty soon.
Frankly, after seeing how big this book's going to be, it's easy to see why D&D splits the stuff into two separate volumes traditionally!
I have a special request James. Is there any way you can print the books on the same paper and with the same binding and font as the 1st edition PHB and DMG? Or at least find a way to have the Pathfinder book have the same SMELL as those books? There's something about the smell of those books that just brings to mind the best memories ever...
Plus those books lasted forever. 30 years old and look the same as when they were 5 yrs old. Whereas my 2e books are in tatters.
But the more I think about it, the more I think a special edition commemorating 1e by printing PF in the same font, print, paper, style, binding, etc, would sell very well. Replace the art with 1e style B&W stuff, old school style, but with all the PF content. That would be cool as hell.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
Frankly, after seeing how big this book's going to be, it's easy to see why D&D splits the stuff into two separate volumes traditionally!
Is there already a discussion going on about the pros and cons of splitting the volume into two? And is it a possibility that it might happen?
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
We're currently in the high-level play portion of the open playtest of the Pathfinder RPG; while we've been gathering feedback on how best to address the problems with high-level play this whole time, it wasn't until the start of last week that we really opened the issue up for public discussion over at the Paizo messageboards.
Great advertisement, except you didn't post a link to those messageboards!! Never underestimate the importance of convenience
While I've been playing 4e, I have been watching the beta. Just like 4e, it has its pluses and minuses.
I think the flavor of the revamp classes is very good, and they definitely fixed some high level magic, but I think its still just an alternate 3.5. The fundamental "issues" with 3.5 are still there, but they have done some very good work with enhancing what 3.5 already does well.
Still, I think 50 bucks is reasonable for such a large book, though I might recommend a player only pdf or something so those without the big wallets can own a copy that contains just the player info or something.
But the more I think about it, the more I think a special edition commemorating 1e by printing PF in the same font, print, paper, style, binding, etc, would sell very well. Replace the art with 1e style B&W stuff, old school style, but with all the PF content. That would be cool as hell.
This is an amusing and interesting idea. Of course, in the 30 or so years since those 1E books were published, the world's gone through a LOT of changes. I honestly don't even know if using the same paper stock and binding as those older books is even possible. It's certainly not something that we'll be doing for the PF RPG's release, since the actual binding and paper stock is as much a function of what printer we choose to use as it is to anything else... plus the book's going to be in full color, and I'm not sure the paper stock in those old 1E books is a good choice for color printing.
Is there already a discussion going on about the pros and cons of splitting the volume into two? And is it a possibility that it might happen?
No discussion; it's pretty much set in stone at this point that the book will be only one book—the attraction of having the core rules in one book that's less expensive than two books is pretty alluring, after all.
I suppose it's possible that we might do something crazy with a reprint some day, but for now, the PF RPG is one big book.
This is an amusing and interesting idea. Of course, in the 30 or so years since those 1E books were published, the world's gone through a LOT of changes. I honestly don't even know if using the same paper stock and binding as those older books is even possible. It's certainly not something that we'll be doing for the PF RPG's release, since the actual binding and paper stock is as much a function of what printer we choose to use as it is to anything else... plus the book's going to be in full color, and I'm not sure the paper stock in those old 1E books is a good choice for color printing.
What a great way to pay homage to our roots, as the game takes off in an exciting new direction with Pathfinder.
I doubt color would work with that paper, but even more reason to make the new artwork B&W sketches in the same style of the original 1e books. And I guaran-damn-tee you, it would sell in the thousands, if it were possible to get the old paper, font, layout, style, format, etc.
If you do make such a book, shoot me a free copy for the idea.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
I wish Paizo luck on revamping high level play in 3E. I don't see how you can do it without rewriting and restructuring the game from level one on up since most of the problems with high level play start with the power structure built from level one.
If you keep the book at $50 I'll buy it even though I don't intend on ever playing 3E again.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
we'll probably not have the deity names in the cleric section be open content, but who knows?
It would be cool if you did have an open content setting though. Of course, I understand that you don't want some schlub publisher putting out "The Secret Furry Lifestyles of the Pathfinder Gawds" but it would still be a cool option.
The open setting, not the aforementioned book.
__________________
"If you're going to hire Machete to kill the bad guy, you'd better make d&#n sure the bad guy isn't you! "
On a more general note: When I was still keeping Pace with Pathfinder, it was all about changing the PC classes. That was a relatively minor problem with 3.5 for me.
Has pathfinder progressed and made any real changes to the back-end? How much time the DM needs to prepare monster and adventures?
__________________ Carl Cramér
Member of the Netbook of Feats review board.
I have a special request James. Is there any way you can print the books on the same paper and with the same binding and font as the 1st edition PHB and DMG?
Heh... Great minds must think alike.
James is right-- not much you can do about the paper, binding, etc. at this point. There's no way to recapture that.
But all the Trailblazer previews I have published so far have used that old font. (It's Futura, by the way, also known by other names such as Twentieth Century or Tw Cen, etc.)
On a more general note: When I was still keeping Pace with Pathfinder, it was all about changing the PC classes. That was a relatively minor problem with 3.5 for me.
Has pathfinder progressed and made any real changes to the back-end? How much time the DM needs to prepare monster and adventures?
The primary goal of the Pathfinder RPG isn't to 100% reinvent the game. The rules in the Beta were (as they should be in a Beta) experiments. We've seen that some of those experiments work out, but others don't and we're reverting back to the 3.5 rules in some cases. In the end, the game is hopefully going to be very compatible with 3.5. As a result the Pathfinder RPG is probably not the game folks who are totally fed up with 3.5 and hate the 3.5 rules are going to want.
As for how much time a GM needs to prepare monsters and build adventures... there are some adjustments here and there, yes. We're deep in the process right now of creating the monster stat blocks for the Pathfinder Bestiary, in fact, and after having statted up 60 monsters... yes, building stat blocks is faster and simpler. It's not fast and simple, though... and honestly, I don't think it should be fast and simple to stat up an entirely new monster. I don't see a moderate level of complexity with RPG rules as a problem but as an attraction, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that camp. There's a happy balance somewhere between complex and simple, and that's what we're aiming for. The 3.5 rules as they currently stand are too much on the complex side, but I don't want to overcorrect into the simplicity.
The primary goal of the Pathfinder RPG isn't to 100% reinvent the game. The rules in the Beta were (as they should be in a Beta) experiments. We've seen that some of those experiments work out, but others don't and we're reverting back to the 3.5 rules in some cases. In the end, the game is hopefully going to be very compatible with 3.5. As a result the Pathfinder RPG is probably not the game folks who are totally fed up with 3.5 and hate the 3.5 rules are going to want.
As for how much time a GM needs to prepare monsters and build adventures... there are some adjustments here and there, yes. We're deep in the process right now of creating the monster stat blocks for the Pathfinder Bestiary, in fact, and after having statted up 60 monsters... yes, building stat blocks is faster and simpler. It's not fast and simple, though... and honestly, I don't think it should be fast and simple to stat up an entirely new monster. I don't see a moderate level of complexity with RPG rules as a problem but as an attraction, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that camp. There's a happy balance somewhere between complex and simple, and that's what we're aiming for. The 3.5 rules as they currently stand are too much on the complex side, but I don't want to overcorrect into the simplicity.
As for how much time a GM needs to prepare monsters and build adventures... there are some adjustments here and there, yes. We're deep in the process right now of creating the monster stat blocks for the Pathfinder Bestiary, in fact, and after having statted up 60 monsters... yes, building stat blocks is faster and simpler. It's not fast and simple, though... and honestly, I don't think it should be fast and simple to stat up an entirely new monster. I don't see a moderate level of complexity with RPG rules as a problem but as an attraction, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that camp. There's a happy balance somewhere between complex and simple, and that's what we're aiming for. The 3.5 rules as they currently stand are too much on the complex side, but I don't want to overcorrect into the simplicity.
James, I'd be curious to know if Paizo might put out a quick conversion guide to update Creatures & Adventures from 3e/OGL to the Pathfinder system.
James, I'd be curious to know if Paizo might put out a quick conversion guide to update Creatures & Adventures from 3e/OGL to the Pathfinder system.
I believe that's the plan. We'll have a conversion book that goes over the steps on how to take a stat block from a 3.5 adventure and convert it to the PF RPG system. And by extension, said book would also show folks how to convert a PF RPG statblock to 3.5 rules.
I believe that's the plan. We'll have a conversion book that goes over the steps on how to take a stat block from a 3.5 adventure and convert it to the PF RPG system. And by extension, said book would also show folks how to convert a PF RPG statblock to 3.5 rules.
No, it's a genuine concern, since they wouldn't have been the first 3rd party OGL publisher to give 10-20% new content, and 80-90% reprints from the SRD.
Quote:
No discussion; it's pretty much set in stone at this point that the book will be only one book—the attraction of having the core rules in one book that's less expensive than two books is pretty alluring, after all.
Well, that was always one of my pet peeves with White Wolf games: if I have no intention of running the game, only playing it, then at least 30% of the book's page count is useless to me. Since the majority of buyers are players, not DMs, they might look at the huge page count and cost as offputting, as much of that content may be useless to them (like myself, as I might have been interested in seeing what it played like, but I have no intentions of running it and that would preclude me from buying it). I've skipped numerous books because of that issue.
__________________ If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him... and take his stuff.
We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are.
Trailblazer is now available.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
