Life in the desert

[DarkDagger]

alright so im sitting here getting a campaign ready waiting for my 4e dmg to come in so i can look it over to see if it can answer my question but i want to know the answer now. can you help me out?

So i have and idea for a campaign set in the desert. But I dont know any rules to govern traveling acrossed a sand blown desert. Is it easy to get lost, how fast is travel, what about wind storms, etc... I want to make water very vital to this campaign so whats a good rule for water consumption? How much water per day per race?

Any other idea will help tons cause im sure i havent thought of everything.

[Wootz]

You could use the "lost in the wilderness" skill challenge, making the PCs use their relevant skills to survive (nature, endurance, etc. etc.) or something close to that.

[Charger28Alpha]

I have extensive time in desert environments (American Southwest, Sinai, and Saudi Arabia).

The most important thing is water. An active Human needs to drink around a liter every hour when the temp is above 100F (38c). And half a liter per hour in lower temps.

The desert is made up of a wide variety of terrain types. The American southwest is more fertile than the middle of Saudi Arabia. The Sinai and its neighbor the Negev are very dry and rocky, with major mountain ranges. So travel time and navigational difficulties are not consistent.

If you are only focusing on sandy dune desert areas I would cut non combat movement in half, maybe by a third. Getting lost is a real possibility unless one is using the sun, or stars to navigate by, if a major terrain feature is visible (Mountains) than using it as a guide would make it easier to navigate.

I strongly recommend using Google image search and enter the names of any real world desert. This will help you visualize the desert and some of the images may spark adventure ideas and locales.

[DarkDagger]

the setting i had in mind was the whole continent was like a desert... so there would be Arabian, Australian, Sahara, and Mojave deserts

all the farm land would be near the coasts and the valuable metals would be in the mountains so trade between the two is a must. i am going to place well located and rare oasis' where towns may be built

[Nyeshet]

First thing to consider is that the majority of land on Earth referred to as desert is not covered by sand dunes. Bare rock, compacted gravel and stone, salt flats, and so forth make up significant areas of desert surface on this world. Most sandy deserts are the results of weathering of specific regions of eroded stone, and the sand that results is often the color of said stone. Thus there are deserts with red sand, yellow sand, white sand, and even black sand. While I cannot think of any off hand, I imagine that there are places with brown or gray sand as well.

Furthermore, the defining issue of the desert is the utter lack of moisture upon the surface. This leads to several things: significant wind erosion rather than water (leading to a starker, rougher look to the terrain), a lack of vegetation (leading to stronger winds over the landscape, as no forests exist to slow them), greater differences in day / night temperatures (day might be 100*F, while night might be close to 20*F - even in the summer). However, note that water might still exist well beneath the surface. Indeed, oasis are regions where the land and sand / sediment is low enough that water beneath the surface is revealed upon the surface. If you have an underworld - or underdark as it is sometimes called - then the lower and more stable temperature, combined with the fact that rivers and even lakes might exist there - would likely make it a major strategic region, even for humans.

Note that rivers can still flow for significant distances through a desert. Consider the Nile, for example. Thus you might have a major river running from the equator-side of the continent towards the pole-side of the continent. Along the river - at least nearer the sea - will be a significant region for planting and either city-states or kingdoms. The difference will be determined by the stability of the flooding. If it is regular it will likely give rise to kingdoms, such as the Lower and Upper Kingdoms of Egypt, whereas if it is irregular in its flooding the situation is less stable, and city-states are perhaps more likely to develop.

The river might also run under the ground, erupting from the side of a cliff or out of an oasis at some point - seemingly from nowhere (unless towns exist under the surface along said river's underground length).


One perhaps notable consideration - just how large *is* the continent? Theoretically, I suppose you could make it as large (north to south) as the widest expanse of the Sahara - somewhat over a thousand miles. Length (East to West) could be another issue.

Also, are the locals colonists? Did some kingdom in the ancient past (or recent past) colonize the continent - only to collapse at some point after, leaving the colonists to develop on their own or die out? Or did the locals develop civilization in this place? If that is true, has the land always been desert, or has something happened that has made it desert? Perhaps some deity associated with rain and storms was slain, resulting in a world wide dissication until a new one can replace the lost deity?

Lastly, what races are present on this continent? All of the standard D&D races or only a few? And where on the continent are they located? Or are they evenly mixed in all areas?

Anyway, please give us more information on the setting so we can help you further flesh it out.

[DarkDagger]

i would love to give some information on my setting but in reality i just thought of the idea today while making the first dungeon the pc's start in

but here is what i have:
the natives of the land are going to be desert elves, i am going to try to make them like the Fremen in the Dune novels (and im thinking about adding the spice and blue on blue eyes to the campaign as well but not sure how to work that)
besides these desert elves there are no regular elves, yet
the dwarves were the first race to colonize this land but soon left its colony and its people as a great war broke out back home (and i was thinking that great war happened about 2000+ years ago maybe)
there are a few eladrin but are very rare
the haflings live in an arizona type desert
im debating on if i want dragonborn and tiefling there also
humans are new to the land they have been around for some 600 years or so now (idk yet how they got there and why they are stuck with no contact from the old world)

i was planning to have a large river under the desert (that the fremen use/control?) and small rare rivers over land. and a large lake on top of the mountains as for the size of this continent i am unsure of yet

does this help explain what im trying to get at

[Nyeshet]

This will likely be my last posting tonight, so I will not be able to answer your response to this post until tomorrow.

My first thought is to have some dwarves remaining behind in the mountains. The humans may not know about the dwarves, but perhaps the Freman / Desert Elves trade with them. Indeed, the humans might presume that the Desert Elves are the source of ores and various metal crafted items when in fact they are mere tradesmen selling to the humans the fruits of the dwarves mines and forges in the mountains. The main reason for this is twofold: 1) if a PC wishes to be a dwarf it allows for the option, and 2) it allows for further adventure ideas later should the PCs start exploring the mountains. This is just a thought, however.

As you are using Eladrin, perhaps *they* are the 'blue eyed Freman'? This would explain their rarety, the unusual powers they have (compared to desert elves), and so forth.

As you are using Eladrin, I presume this is 4e? If so, then as I recall Halflings are associated with water. Why not have them living on the main river along its (shorter) surface length? Or around the lake in the mountains? Or along the marsh lands near the delta of the main river?

How is the lake in the mountains getting its water? I presume you are basing it off Lake Victoria that feeds the Nile - with the major river being fed in part or whole by this lake before sinking underground for its journey to the coast? But if I recall correctly, Lake Victoria receives much of its water from intermittent or seasonal sub-tropical rains. Are the mountains in which the the lake is located on the equator-side of the continent? Is that coast more akin to savanna or sahel, receiving intermittent or seasonal rains? Or might the Lake have in its depths a portal to the Plane of Water, ever filling it even as it drains away into the major river?

If you are using 4e, then Dragonborn might well fit into the setting you are creating. Perhaps Dragonborn are mostly barbarous and are in fact the original inhabitants of the continent. Tieflings do not really sound as if they would fit, however.

It sounds as if the continent was settled three times: first by the dwarves, who mostly or completely left at some point a few centuries after arriving; then later by the desert elves, who have more or less settled well upon the continent; and lastly by the humans, who have somehow supplanted the desert elves, forcing them away from the coasts and further into the harsher deserts inland. I would expect some conflict between the prior two races.

How did the halflings arrive? Were they perhaps initially slaves of the elves or humans?

Recall that as far as trade goes, salt is almost as important as water in a desert. In fact in Earth history, many that lived in or near a desert traded in salt. Sometimes they carved it from salt flats. At other times they gathered water from drying out / dying inland seas and let the sun remove the water, leaving only salt behind.

It sounds like the desert elves both live upon the surface and under the surface, working as caravans (and raiders?) across the desert and in towns and caravans along the underworld length of the major river. Perhaps they use hidden entrances to this underworld, raiding human settlements only to seemingly vanish into the desert afterward.

[DarkDagger]

well the lake and the rivers it feeds gets its water from a great snow storm that happens only once every
ten years in the mountains and slowly melts to feed the lake... the snow storm is cause by (insert a god here)

here is a ruff draft of the history of the land:

the dragonborn ruled the continent for many centuries but then the temperature of the land started getting warmer and changing the land
so they fled only a few remained behind. only two dragonborn ships returned back to the continent and it brought some passangers, the elves. Soon the elves discovered the spice in the desert and became addicted. without any way to mass produce the spice the elves left the coast line and started living in the desert. thats how they became the fremen.
after about 250 years the spice suddenly disappeared. this caused many of the fremen to die off. many of them blamed the dragonborn. after about a year they begain to die from the lack of spice, some the ones that died came back to life within hours of their death like nothing happened but they were different from the way they were before they died, they became the eladrin. feeling this difference the eladrin left their brothers looking for their own
home. after five years the spice reappeared
Then the dwarves came to this land looking for new metals for trade. The dwarves came and went freely between their kingdom and this new
colonly for 100 years without ever finding the dragonborn or the fremen. then the last dwarven ship left the colonly only to never return. after about 50 years the dwarves discovered the dragonborn and the fremen.
the dragonborn and the fremen were at war with eachother over a large salt mine.
the dwarves began playing sides. this lasted for 95 years then an eclipes happened.
when the sky went dark at high noon the war between the dragonborn and fremen ended for there was a new enemy.
monsters not natural to this land appeared in mass and attacked everything in sight. populations were destroyed and then there was a balance between the monsters and the three races
the dwarves and fremen traded between eachother while the dragonborn became more and more like the monsters themselves
then the humans arrived with halfling slaves. the humans built towns on the coast and used the haflings to do the farming. life was good for the humans until the dragonborn attacked. these dragonborn were not like the ones they knew back home. the humans began getting sick and forced the haflings to do most of the fighting. after many years of fighting the haflings began to fight back against the humans. with the humans suffering from a plague they sent word back home for help. before help returned the haflings killed all the humans and began looking for a safe place to live away from the human settlement. the dragonborn not seeing a human for years forgot about them
and went after the ones they have been fighting, the haflings
15 ships of humans came to help and brought news that a large army of the underworld was attacking the kingdom. but all they found was a ruined city with dead bodies everywhere. while burning the bodies many of the people got sick and died. most of the sailors died of illness leaving no one knowing the way back home. the ones that thought they knew the way took some ships and sailed off only to never be heard from again. So the humans began again on this land. they met the fremen and began trading with them for their metals.
it has been 200 years since the those 15 ships arrived from the old kingdom.

any holes im missing? i know im missing some if not many

[Siran Dunmorgan]

This is something that came to me after reading your description; it has the character of a party of elves preparing to raid a caravanserai on one of the trade roads. It's basically a mish-mash of images from different sources, but it mostly holds together; just a late-night thought.

=====

[Scene: a camp, on a ridge above the trading route from al-Iskandariya to ai-Yafa. In the distance, along the trade road, the lights of a serai can be made out in the distance. There are perhaps forty naurael, elves of the high desert, seated irregularly around a fire-pit; it is the full dark of night. The elves have been silent for some time, entranced by the flames.]

An elderly elf near the fire rises to his feet, supporting himself on a staff of stout ironwood, wrapped with the hide and teeth of some reptilian beast. He throws back the hood of his intricately embroidered robes, swaying in time with the dancing of the flames. He reaches into a pouch suspended from the wide sash about his waist, and casts a handful of powder into the fire. As the aroma of cinnamon fills the air, the gathered naurael sigh deeply and begin to rock gently back and forth with the old one's swaying. He nods, then begins to speak:

Ai! Ai! Naura, kri! Hear! Hear! O elves, and attend my words!
Now is an-Thelur—the Sun—hidden from the sky! Now is al-Senan—the Moon—not yet risen!
Now is the time of an-Sehr, when secrets are told to urachim, the stones, and to elchim, the stars!

[the assembled elves whisper: iurachim, kri! ielchim, kri! ]

It was dawn in a fair country, that the bones of our ancestors remember, where green things grew, and all had their fill of water. The sons of dragons came, and took us from that place; to the beat of drums—tan! tan! tan!—they made us march. From the places of our ancestors they took us, and across the Great Sea.

[the assembled elves whisper: iurachim, kri! ielchim, kri! ]

To this land, this land of fire in the light of an-Thelur, this land of ice in the light of al-Senan they brought us, and here did our ancestors weep, remembering—glug, glug,glug—the waters of their home. In the light of an-Thelur did we learn to hide by day, and in the light of al-Senan did we learn to revel in the night, and in the darkness and the silence of an-Sehr did we learn patience.

[the assembled elves whisper: iurachim, kri! ielchim, kri! ]

Then woe came to us, then weal came to us, then an-Sehr, the darkness, led us to al-tinam, the spice. Ai, Ai! Al-tinam is sweet! Ai, ai! Al-tinam is bitter! For the love of al-tinam did our we dry our tears, for the love of al-tinam did our ancestors forsake the land of green and water!

[the assembled elves whisper: iurachim, kri! ielchim, kri! ]

Many times has an-Thelur gone into the darkness! Many time has al-Senan gone into the east! Many times has al-Khusre the Lady of Shadows crossed the land, and yet we remain! The sweetness of al-tinam we remember, the bitterness of al-tiname we do not forget! But with our swords—ket, ket, ket—we are revenged on those whose ancestors brought ours to this land!

[the assembled elves whisper: iurachim, kri! ielchim, kri! ]

With our swords and our knives and our fleetness—esh, esh, esh—we take what is ours...

—Siran Dunmorgan

[diaglo]

not just water. but food. not many things live in the desert. finding things to kill to eat is hard too.

and minerals. salt is/was worth more when it was hard to get and transport.

[webrunner]

One of the early 4e dragon issues (one of the free ones, I think) has an article on dark sun plants, which is a desert setting.

[Nyeshet]

Before I make comments on your statements, I think I should describe my understanding (or lack thereof) in regards to the arrangement of the geography of your continent.

I tend to think of it as being somewhere between Australia and India in size, existing almost entirely between 15 degrees and 30 degrees north. It has a mountain chain crossing it. I tend to think of the mountain chain as inland about 1/4 of the way from (and stretching along) one of the coasts - north, south, east, or west, although I admit I tend to imagine the mountains along the north coast. The mountains are somewhat like the Andean range of South America, the Rockies of North America, or the East African Mountains of the African Rift Valley - in that there is a high plateau within them, this plateau containing a lake - somewhat like Lake Titikaka of the Incas, the Great Salt Lake of Utah, or Lake Victoria in NE Africa.

From this lake emerges a vast river - akin to the White Nile, but unlike the White Nile this river soon diverts underground, traveling most of the way to the coast through the underworld. At some point 3/4 to 4/5 of the length of its journey, it finally emerges upon the landscape a hundred miles or so from the coast - after traversing almost the whole width of the continent.

While the east coast is likely desert, the west and either the north or south coast is slightly less arid - savanna or sahel conditions that occasionally give way to desert before again restoring to grassland - perhaps in a cycle? The river I tend to think of as ending in the south coast.

Much of the inland region of the continent is flat expanses of bare rock or compact gravel / sand, with salt flats showing the remains for former inland lakes or seas. Some regions have sand dunes, usually on the windward side of a region of readily eroded rock. Most sandy regions are white or yellow or even red, although the remains of an extinct volcano might have given rise to black sands somewhere.

At some point in the past the land was less arid. Per your description it was actually cooler, so perhaps the continent is around 15 to 25 degrees wide (latitude)? 15 to 20 is more subtropical than arid, but if the temperature increases somewhat it can bake the land, leading to deserts. This would make much of the south coast former savanna and even traces of tropical desciduous forest. During this less arid time caves formed more readily, and the dwarves likely made good work of them, expanding and squaring them into halls and underground passages. Likely the 'sides' of the underground stretch of the river were carved away during this time, leading to both 'roadways' along the river and even wider spaces good for small towns. Openings leading to the surface could allow for the gathering of surface supplies.

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All that said . . . .


I am a little confused. Your earlier post suggested that dwarves had been there first, but this post suggests they came after the elves? Also, why would the dragonborn leave the continent just because it was becoming more arid. As I understand it - and based upon where dragonborn are being placed in official revisions of various world - dragonborn are partial to - not against - more arid locations.

Also, while using halflings for farming slave labor makes some sense, using them as conscripts in war makes far less sense - except in the sense of serf arrow-catchers meant to soak up the damage for their better armed and armored lords. Yet in this harsh clime losing so many to battle would lead to certain famine. Also, would they really want to put weapons in the hands of their slaves, let alone teach them to use them? I can see monk halflings actually forming in this environment, as - due to not being allowed to own or use weapons or even participate much in war - the halflings secretly taught themselves a means of protection without weapons.


If I may make a few minor (and not so minor) revisions, this is how I would have done it, given the constraints and ideas you have stated in your posts:

The dragonborn are innate to the continent, but most of them are barbarians or similar. Some few tribes of them have risen out of barbarism - even pushed back those other tribes that are more barbarous further into the deserts. However, the later near destruction of these more civilized tribes allowed the more barbarous ones - long held back - to surge forth, causing others to think that the dragonborn had fallen into barbarism, when in fact these were different tribes entirely form those already met.

The dwarves were amongst the first to settle the continent, but it was always contentious between them and the dragonborn. The dwarves focused on the underworld, even diverting streams from the great river into underground canals for their cities. This eventually lead to war with the dragonborn, as the dragonborn needed the water as well and could not access it until after it left the underworld for the surface. For whatever reason, the dwarves ended up losing that war. Some remained but went into hiding in the further reaches of the underworld, using little of the water so that the dragonborn were not aware of their existence. Other dwarves simply left the continent for whichever land they originally came from. The dragonborn were aware of the 'roads' along the underground stretches of the great river and collapsed most of the canals leading away from the great river. This partially flooded the roads and flat areas beside the underground river. Some water continued to flow through a few of the collapsed sections, allowing for small and hidden dwarven settlements. The 'roads' and flat regions (large enough for small towns) next to the underground stretches of the river would remain forgotten until aridity spread over the continent, drying up the river enough to expose the roads and flat areas once again - but then the elves took over those regions.

Later the elves came to the continent. Initially they settled in the south where it was less arid. There were some troubles with the dragonborn, but unknown to the elves the dragonborn had not yet recovered enough from their war with the dwarves a few centuries back. They were just strong enough to hold their own against the raids of more wild dragonborn. Thus they were unable to stop the colonization of parts of their land to the southwest by elves. In exploring the continent, some elves discovered patches of strange sand. Unknown to them, this and was from deserts in the realm of faerie, brought to this land through strange magic (or creatures) that crossed the planar boundaries. Or perhaps it was at sites where strong magic was used in the past to travel between this world and faerie - leaving patches of faerie desert in its wake. Some dissicated fey moss came with it. In this world it quickly dried out and turned to dust, mixing with the highly magical sand and thus giving rise to the creation of 'spice' (or whatever you will eventually call it). Such patches were rare (perhaps brief wild magic storms cause the planar boundaries to weaken?)

Prior to consuming the spice, the elves were more akin to half-elves in lifespan, but afterward their lifespans increased greatly (to those of elves). Because of this, it was at first limited to the nobles of the elves, but soon it expanded to the aristocracy of the greater merchants and more wealthy artisans as well. But it was rare, and it had to be consumed regularly or death might result.


Here is where I draw a bit of a blank. Something incredible must have happened, for the land began to warm and dry, leading to both an increase in deserts and a lack of spice. Perhaps a deity died? But then why did this affect the spice? Perhaps some moisture in the air was needed for it to exist? That removes the use of wild magic storms causing brief overlap of an area between faerie and this world - perhaps. Or maybe ... try this and see how it works ...


The land - prior to drying out - had a wet and dry season. Further inland the wet season did not much exist, but when edges of storms from the south met the drier sandstorms of the north, the mixing of elements sometimes lead to strange magics that weakened boundaries between this world and faerie (and the shadow world maybe? this could give rise to TWO spices - one that lead to eladrin, the other to tieflings). With the greater heat (perhaps a new deity of fire / deserts / sun / etc was born?) the sandstorms raged further south - blocking the wet season from more than touching the south coast, and thus ending the situations that allowed for the existence of spice in the deserts even as the deserts expanded.

The elves (and dragonborn for that matter) turned to their deities for aid. The deities aided them by sending south (from the far north) wet and chill winds once every ten years. Upon reaching the mountains snow would fall, (re)filling the vast lake. The next season the winds would end and the snow would start to melt. The edges of these winds similarly mixed with the desert winds as before, leading to spice once again - but further north, deeper in the desert. The elves abandoned the coasts for the desert, as their need for spice forced them to travel to where it could more readily be reached. Some of them discovered the seemingly abandoned lairs of the dwarves, especially along the great river. But in the year that follows the start of the snow melt the passages along the great river underground are mostly flooded except for a few small regions. Thus caravans are needed over the surface between the surface openings of the underworld towns. During the many drier years that followed (before the next snow fall) the passages underground along the river were clear of water, and the caravans of elves upon the surface seemingly vanish as they are all underneath the surface instead.

Yet as they cleared land underground, the elves came in contact with what few dwarven settlements still existed, leading to some hostilities, as the dwarves were both unaware of the surface situation and did not wish to give up their last refuge of lands. Peace was grudgingly made eventually, but some suspicion still exists on both sides.

The dragonborn were the worst for the situation with the river, for its decreased flow for much of the ten years every snowfall was not enough to suit their needs. Their civilization collapsed except for a few small outposts, and wilder tribes of semi-feral dragronborn began to raid the coasts.

Those that died from lack of spice during the drying period before the snows first came later awoke as eladrin or tieflings, depending on which type of spice they had used. Those that were tieflings were viewed as disfigured, for they scarce resembled elves any longer. They were exiled. The eladrin were not exiled, but they were no longer comfortable amongst the elves. They no longer needed the spice for long life, and they had many abilities that were beyond elven. They felt as if they were no longer a part of this world - for indeed they were more a part of faerie, even if they had no means of reaching it. They became wanderers amongst the elves (and later, the humans), for they never felt quite comfortable where they were.

Then the humans came to the continent. There were dragonborn settles - few and small - in the south east. Most dragonborn met, however, were the raiding barbaric dragonborn, and the humans rarely crossed the great river that unofficially divided the lands between the former dragonborn civilization and the former coastal elven civilization. To the north, deeper in the desert, were the rare caravans of desert elves and the raiding parties of dragonborn. Indeed, sometimes the desert elves also raided the humans, for while they had to live nearer the regions in the north where the spice now could be found, they still longed for the easier life they once had in the south, where food more readily grew.

Humans brought with them halfling slaves to till the land while their masters crafted, fought, and played at intrigue. Some halflings secretly taught themselves to fight without weapons in the hopes of one day liberating their people. The humans fought with the raiding parties of elves and dragonborn even as they traded with the less hostile elves and (more rarely) with the dragonborn to the far east along the coast. Some of what they believe to come from the elves, however, is actually the work of dwarves.


This covers the "History" section while allowing for all of the core races to be present. In the more recent present:

The dragonborn raiders have gathered into a horde. Most of the dragonborn are on the east side of the great river, and the more civilized ones are facing the final collapse of their civilization. The wilder ones are more often coming over the north section of the river - where it is underground and easily crossed - to raid human settlements and elven caravans.

The halflings are finally making their attempt at freedom - with mixed successes, some freed and in hiding while others are still enslaved and likely treated worse to 'discourage' attempts at leaving. Parties of halflings likely now make raids as well - both to free slaves and to get supplies. The halflings live amongst the more marshy and swampy regions of the delta of the great river where it meets the sea.

The strain of trying to live in a near desert environment, raids from hordes of dragonborn, and attacks from within by their formerly enslaved halflings, eventually was too much for them. The human civilization collapsed. As you suggested, they sent word to whatever land the colonists came from - more likely requesting assistance in evacuating the land than in fighting the losing war. Assistance came too late in part because the rulers of that land wished to discourage utter evacuation due to the rare ores and gems that were coming from this land. They arrived to find only ruins. As months had passed in the arid landscape, most of the bodies were long since reduced to scattered and broken bones - scavengers, and such. Perhaps a plague further worsened the situation, but it is not necessary. If no ships return another will just be sent, so that could be considered a hole. Instead, the ruler sent supplies and new colonists to help re-enforce the colony. As a viable breeding population of slaves was presumed to already be there, no more were sent in this voyage.

So the new colonists, seeing what they are facing, work to rebuild the walls (for protection) and structures and begin replanting fields and exploring local mines to get an idea of what they have to work with. They cannot leave because 1) they were ordered to remain by their lord and 2) most of them are likely debtors working off debts rather than being imprisoned - almost indentured servants. They have nothing waiting for them at home and no hope beyond what they can make for themselves in this new land, so they get to work. They are not surprised at the lack of slaves after seeing the humans are all dead, as they expect whatever killed the humans also killed the halflings. The bones remaining are so scattered and broken that only an expert anatomist would be able to state whether a particular bone came from human or halfling, so the settlers are not surprised by a lack of halfling bones - as they cannot tell the difference. Word is sent back regarding what they found, and in time more ships may arrive - perhaps with new halfling slaves.

The new human population likely knows of elves and dragonborn from hearsay - tales brought back by sailors and merchants and so forth. Halflings are known of only as slaves, so they will not expect them to be competent in battle. The halflings have created viable settlements in the swampier regions. They no longer need to raid humans to survive, but they likely will if they see any further halfling slaves.


Anyway, given what you have told us, this is how I would likely set it up. It is not quite how you arranged it, but hopefully even if you do not use it this will give you some ideas for your new campaign setting.


Regarding your raiding party scenario, it is quite interesting. It well sets the stage for the feel of the environment. The only part that does not work with my suggested arrangements of the setting is the part regarding the eclipse, although the eclipse could have been used as a sign by the deities regarding the coming of the snow winds of the north - and the fact that the spice would soon be found there.

[Siran Dunmorgan]

On the subject of deserts, trade routes, barbarian tribes et al., I can recommend Expeditious Retreat Press' A Magical Society: Silk Road as a source of inspiration and specifics regarding this sort of environment.

It's available as a PDF from any of the usual vendors, and can be ordered in paper from the larger online retailers or through your local game store.

—Siran Dunmorgan

[Treebore]

Its times like this that your glad you own the Gygax World Builder books. Too bad they are out of print now, and not even available as PDF's.

XRP's Silk Road is an excellent resource too.

[DarkDagger]

wow, Nyeshet do you want to dm this campaign and i will be a player! thank you very much Nyeshet for the help so far and anymore you can give. you have some great ideas that i would have never even thought of

as for how the continent looks i have drawn up a few maps. the map im leaning towards is about 1600 miles north to south and 1950 miles east to west. the continent lays between 10 degrees and 30 degrees north (if i did my math right). there are mountain ranges that run east to west and are mainly in the north. the lake is located in the northwest and feeds a river that runs the length of the continent. i am thinking about adding another lake it would be along the same latitude as the other lake but be about 500 miles away. the river is mostly underground but appears randomly over land and finally surfaces about 100 miles from the coast. the river spilts into three near the middle of the continent and empties to the south southwest, south, and southeast. the best farm land is in the southeast where the mountain range ends and a peninsula starts, also where one of the rivers empties. all the sandy desert is in the northwest. the south is mainly of a Mojave type desert (with less brush then in the pictures i have seen of it) with an occational sand dune. to the north of the mountain ranges is the savanna type desert... I hope this gives a good mental picture (i dont have a scanner)

i love your idea for the dragonborn, dwarves, and elves. i will also be using some of your ideas for the humans and halflings. i think i will be using pretty much what you described but with a few changes
as for the warming and the lose of spice this is what i was thinking, and please give some feedback on this.
so the "spice" is going to be made by a living god. and that living god is going to be a giant worm like in the dune novels but since im making it a god there is only one and not many. a powerful evil elven wizard/druid was getting greedy and wanted more spice but there wasnt enough. he thought that if there was more desert there would be more spice. so he made a spell and with the strength of his god (the worm) he warmed the land and expanded the deserts. but the spell was so powerful it killed the wizard/druid and greatly weakend the worm so much it went into hibernation. while in hibernation the worm still moved around but produced a different spice. with the old spice gone many elves died and some tried this "new spice." when the worm woke up the "new spice" disappeared and some of the ones that died awoke as the eladrin and the some of the ones who had the new spice turned into the tiefling. some of the gods that were not happy with this change to the land tried to fix it and change it back but the best they could do was the snow fall every ten years.

[El Mahdi]

Originally Posted by Nyeshet

...Furthermore, the defining issue of the desert is the utter lack of moisture upon the surface. ...

All your descriptions were good, and you are absolutely correct about deserts not just being sandy, however the above statement isn't correct. The defining issue of deserts is the lack of precipitation, not the lack of moisture upon the surface. Along with the aforementioned rivers, deserts can have alkaline/salt lakes, which although not able to support much (if any) life, would still be considered "moisture upon the surface". Technically, Antarctica has one of the largest (if not the largest) desert region on the planet. And that's with up to 1 mile of frozen "moisture" covering the surface. The layer of ice and snow just doesn't melt due to the constant freezing temperatures, even though these regions get maybe only an inch or two of precipitation per year (or less). Personally, I feel that a better defining factor is how much water is available for living organisms, rather than the amount of precipitation. But the above is the official defining factor.

Also, not all deserts are hot. There are temperate deserts, cold deserts (Antarctica), and high altitude deserts (which can be both hot or cold, or hot and cold). The need for increased water is definitely a necessity in any desert, and heat can increase that need even more, but the need for increased water is based more on the aridness of the region than the heat. Increased water intake is just as important in a temperate or cold desert as in a hot desert, and the amount of water intake required is fairly consistent whether cold, temperate or hot.

Also, as I believe someone made mention of earlier, salt is just as important as water (although usually easy to find in a desert - except for Antarctica, although there is a frozen Antarctic salt lake in a barren, snowless, rocky canyon). In this context, salt is more than just sodium chloride. Natural unrefined salt - such as salt licks, sea/lake salt, and salt purposely harvested from evaporating water - also contains potassium, magnesium, calcium, and other trace elements - all things required by the body for electrolyte balance and blood pressure/fluid level control. Extreme water intake, without enough electrolyte intake, can kill just as easily as dehydration (resulting in seizures, coma, and heart failure). Also, sudden changes in salt intake (whether sudden increase or decrease) can cause dangerous electrolyte imbalances or blood pressure drops/spikes.

But, despite the harshness of the environment, I would think your "Fremen" (if they are anything like Herbert's) would have evolved and adapted to a certain extent. That would mean that their bodies may work more efficiently, especially in how much water they give up for perspiration and evacuation (you know - "going to the bathroom"), making them require decreased intake of both, and more effiecient at maintaining homeostasis.

Another factor to remember about deserts is differential temperature between night and day. Hot deserts are exactly that, very hot. But even a hot desert's temperature can fall significantly at night, especially high altitude deserts. I've spent time in Afghanistan when the temperature was 110°+F in the day, and then dropped to 50°F within an hour or two of the sun going down. Even though 50° isn't necessarily cold, your environment just changed 60° in a matter of an hour or two. When you are used to very high temperatures, hypothermia is possible during night time temperatures. From first hand experience, I can tell you that after a 110° day, a 50° night is coooooooollllllldddd! There are quite a few high altitude desert regions in the United States that are also like this.



I'd like to add though, I also, really like your campaign setting. I'm subscribing this thread so I can have it later for reference. Good stuff. Keep us updated on how it goes and what ideas you end up using in your games.

[Wik]

I feel obliged to point this out, so bear with me...

Pick up the Dark Sun setting.

Seriously. I has a bunch of stuff on surviving in the desert, even if it is in 2e rules. It's a great place to start.

I'd also only use enough "real world" terminology to make things interesting. If you think it sucks to worry about wind patterns... ignore it. Your players will never notice.

[Nyeshet]

How widespread is the worship of this worm? Does a deity's power depend upon their number of worshipers? If so, has the changeover in populations (both in number and in racial composition) before and after the hibernation resulted in a decrease (or increase) of worshipers? Are the deities that bring the snow antagonistic towards the worm deity? If so there could be religious strife - such that the worm followers must live as secretive cultists (at least among non-elven races). How much does the general population know about the cause of the warming? If they associate it with the worm or the (former) high priest (druid / wizard) of the worm, then that might cause some to look negatively upon it.

Why did the spice change? Did the worm purposely change the nature of the spice? If so, was this as a punishment, considering that tieflings are looked upon by most societies as accursed by the gods (or at least in league with the fiends)? Was the spice changed from old to new due to a corruption of the worm - perhaps as a backlash of the spell gone somewhat wrong? Did that alter more than the spice? Perhaps even the worm in some permanent or semi-permanent manner? Why did the new spice vanish? Did the worm deity will it out of existence? Could more of the 'new spice' come into existence somehow?

Your statements are a bit ambiguous. Does the former spice - old spice - again exist now that the hibernation is over? If so, are there any elves that purposely use the spice and then go off it - allowing themselves to die - so as to arise as eladrin? (This almost reminds me of the elan in the Expanded Psionics Handbook of 3.5e.) If not, are the eladrin (and perhaps even tieflings) a dying race (as so few exist, and no more can be created via dying from the spice - and elves are not known for their high fertility rates).

Are the deities that are seeking to return the land to its prior nature antagonistic towards worm deity or other deities? Now that that spell is finished, the caster dead, and the worm moved on to other things, is the spell fading (especially considering the deities likely working against it)? If so, how is that affecting the continent? If not, why not, and can something be done to cause it to fade? (That by itself could be the end result of a very long quest. The PCs might finish their near-epic level adventures having recently 'broken' whatever was holding the spell in place - leading to its gradual fading. They won't see the end result in their lifetimes, but their children or grandchildren will see the land fully restored to its prior bounty.) If the spell cannot be broken, is it perhaps still continuing - still increasing the warmth, such that eventually even the snows will not be enough to sustain the environment.

If that latter is true - or even if it is a spell that cannot be broken - you may want to look into the Dark Sun campaign setting. While the books are all 2e, I think there are a few 3e conversions online somewhere. The general idea of Dark Sun, if I recall correctly, is a desert world that is ever slowly but surely moving closer to final death of all. Water is a precious commodity as the oceans are vanished or nearly so, and some forms of magic wither life near the caster - hastening an already terrible situation. Yet even if this is not so, Dark Sun may offer some ideas.

Lastly, why did the wizard want more spice? I read the Dune novels a very long time ago, so I may be mis-recalling, but from what I understand there was a limit as to how much one could get from spice. Did the wizard wish to corner the market, so the speak? Or were their special spells that required vast amounts of spice as a component? Or was it a means of worship to spread spice to as many as possible? Or did he hope to become more powerful by consuming insane amounts of the spice? Or was he just insane? Also, what did the worm think of this? Or is the worm somewhat lacking in intellect - or so alien in thought process that it was unable to understand the wishes / intentions of the wizard / druid worshiper? You say the worm aided the wizard - is the worm associated with deserts (or heat) and so was expanding its domain? Or was it just mindlessly (or chaotically / capriciously / whimsically) granting its strength to the druid / wizard?


The only other issue I have is with the river branching into three rivers. There is only one place on earth where something akin to that happens. A rapids region of a river in the Andean Mountains of South America falls upon a section of rock that is too tough to quickly erode away. The waters that fall down one side continues as one river, while the remaining waters continue as another river. Everywhere else on earth when a river is divided into more than one path, one path quickly dominates (within just a few years or decades), closing off the other branch and thus letting it dry out and die as a river. Sometimes a river can actually cut off and steal a branch of another river, just because the wiggles of one cause it to touch another - and its path is less readily covered in silt than the other - which is soon covered and thus cut off from its former branch.

If magic were involved - especially divine magic - it could readily be explained, but otherwise I am unsure as to how to work it.

[Nightchilde-2]

I've been through the desert.

On a horse.

With no name.

[El Mahdi]

Old_Spice - Very Old School! Maybe you should use OD&D for the game. At least those Elves will smell very Manly.