History Fighting Medieval Style

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Galloglaich

Sounds like a good trick, but if you can cut his head, why not split his skull?

It is the type of attack that sacrifices power for speed. You are striking so fast and without preparation(suddenly from unusual angles) that you can only nick the opponent.
(Kind a like the difference between flicker and smash in boxing, one is used in a series of quick jabs, the other winding up to deliver a guard piercing blow)
Or taken from another angle an overhead two hand downward slash(like chopping wood with an axe) or 180 degrees wind up with a step in cut are very powerful but slow giving time for the opponent to strike first, or just side step.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by Dimitri Mazieres

Shadowrun 4th Edition?

<snip>

Maybe he was referring to the link in his signature...?

Probably right on both counts.

[El Mahdi]

Originally Posted by Silverblade The Ench

... Folk think you have ot only stikie mortal blows but no, the point is to survive, and crippling your opponent, thus he dies from blood loss or whatever, is effective. ...

So true. If your opponent can't see, breathe, or stand, you've more than likely won the engagement - whether they're dead or not. Of course they may come after you later, so...

[Dannyalcatraz]

So true. If your opponent can't see, breathe, or stand, you've more than likely won the engagement - whether they're dead or not. Of course they may come after you later, so..

And that's why battlefield scavengers are a good thing...as long as its not your d00ds being scavenged.

[Galloglaich]

Originally Posted by Luce

It is the type of attack that sacrifices power for speed. You are striking so fast and without preparation(suddenly from unusual angles) that you can only nick the opponent.
(Kind a like the difference between flicker and smash in boxing, one is used in a series of quick jabs, the other winding up to deliver a guard piercing blow)
Or taken from another angle an overhead two hand downward slash(like chopping wood with an axe) or 180 degrees wind up with a step in cut are very powerful but slow giving time for the opponent to strike first, or just side step.

Fair enough, but I think people really misunderstand the effects of a sharp sword, if you know what you are doing with a real sword it takes very little effort to cut through flesh and bone. Swords don't weigh ten pounds and you don't need to be conan to cut things with them. In fact power isn't really an issue it's really all form.

Most people have no idea how easy it is to dismember somebody with a sword. Just to cite one example (not for the squeamish)

YouTube - ARMA Test Cutting-Cleaving a Deer...

You Tube

YouTube - Ancient Edge Bastard Sword Cutting Demo...

You Tube

I think it's ironic how in RPGs, Computer Games, and fantasy genre movies, you can cut through armor like butter, but human bodies seem all but impervious to sword attacks (major cuts leave tiny wounds etc.)


Call me crazy...

G.

[Silverblade The Ench]

On this kind of subject...
when you think about it, the best (melee) weapons for adventurers would probably be the spear, handaxe, cutlass (or similar), shortsword, dagger (or kukri or main gauche) and mace.

The reasons being:

• -Utility! the handaxe and dagger are just so damned useful. They are still used by soldiers to this day. The Kukri doubles as both a fighting blade and damn good brush clearer, etc. This also applies to the cutlass (hence why I made the "drow cutlass" I posted in the art section)
• -Space! Can you imagine swinging a bloody great 2 hander axe indoors, with your friends beside you?! Yeah, right you would, lol! .At least with a spear you can jab, so less worry. Also, in relaity, as the saying goes: "an inch of point is worth a foot of blade". You only need a small thrust to cripple/kill, or accurate slash.
• -Reach! Spears can jab opponents from behind allies, hit vital areas on large beasts you can't get to with other weapons, etc.
• -Laws! Often, weapons with blades over a certain length were banned, or had to be kept tied up, or were only allowed to the nobility. But spears, daggers etc were all commonplace and needed tools.
  Folk forget that D&D cultures/towns will have their own laws on such.
  People carried dirks etc because mugging, banditry and drunken fights were so commonplace in times past, so you can imagine a common law banning weapons with a blade over the length of man's forearm, without a peace strap or licence (such may be given to those in some guilds or nobility).
• -Mobility! Can you imagine clambering around in dungeons, with pit traps, slippy floors...or on ships, or on ice, with heavy plate and a 2handsword?

I'm not saying that any style of armour or weapon is "bad" or useless, or "superior".
It's just that if I was to go say, clear out some goblins in a local mine, I'd much rather have a breastplate with some plate sections to protect certain spots and chain backing (or just a chain shirt with some plate on the right arm and left upper), a light shield (very damned handy in a tight press), handaxe, cutlass or shortsword, dagger, maybe a shortspear with a broad head....than full plate and a vorpal 2 hander!

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Galloglaich

I think it's ironic how in RPGs, Computer Games, and fantasy genre movies, you can cut through armor like butter, but human bodies seem all but impervious to sword attacks (major cuts leave tiny wounds etc.)


Call me crazy...

G.

Could not agree more. Though i think it is misinterpretation of intention. Same as the 1 attack per round rule. The way I understood it you create one (or more) opportunities per round, not as many baffled players see it swing once.
I see a combat round between two swordsman going something like:
You swing towards his head only to have your blade blocked by his. He slide his weapon as he steps in trying to impale you. You use your sword to push his blade aside so it only cuts air, then try to deliver a crushing blow to his face with the pommel.
Of coarse this lengthy description is unplayable for a quick game.

Another common caveat is the HP representation. In previous editions it was stated that it is not that the fighter had become more resistant to blows, it is just that he is more experienced in avoiding them.
If one sees a blade flashing towards one's head depending on experience one may react in the following manner:
little to none: probably freeze in fear or indecision
experienced: side step or block with a move practiced hundreds of times in sparing
very experienced: instinctively judge the angle, duck bellow the blow while stepping in impaling the assailant, then realize that you were attacked (ok that one is a bit of a stretch)

As for the previous Rogue discussion: Replacing Sneak attack ability with Death attack (but only allow the attack to be lunched within 1 round after study) might do the trick. This way the ability remains relevant at high levels, while still not unbalanced since it requires 3 round study during which you have to remain unnoticed. At 10th level reduce the study time to 2rd and at 20th to single (high level monsters have very good senses, see invisibility, true seeing etc) May be allow a feat to extend the delivery time limitation by a round.

[Galloglaich]

Originally Posted by Luce

Could not agree more. Though i think it is misinterpretation of intention. Same as the 1 attack per round rule. The way I understood it you create one (or more) opportunities per round, not as many baffled players see it swing once.
I see a combat round between two swordsman going something like:
You swing towards his head only to have your blade blocked by his. He slide his weapon as he steps in trying to impale you. You use your sword to push his blade aside so it only cuts air, then try to deliver a crushing blow to his face with the pommel.
Of coarse this lengthy description is unplayable for a quick game.

While I agree this is the theory, I was never comfortable with the idea all that action was represented by a single To Hit die roll vs AC. Since I was a kid I never understood why you couldn't play-out a fight like the one you described above in real time in DnD. Of course, there is no reason why you couldn't.

Considering how complex canon DnD actually is, it seems silly to me to base combat on wierd fantasy genre concepts, miniatures, maps, tons of boring math and accounting when at the same level of abstraction (or considerably less) you could fairly easily play-out the mechanics of a real fight.

Another common caveat is the HP representation. In previous editions it was stated that it is not that the fighter had become more resistant to blows, it is just that he is more experienced in avoiding them.
If one sees a blade flashing towards one's head depending on experience one may react in the following manner:
little to none: probably freeze in fear or indecision
experienced: side step or block with a move practiced hundreds of times in sparing
very experienced: instinctively judge the angle, duck bellow the blow while stepping in impaling the assailant, then realize that you were attacked (ok that one is a bit of a stretch)

I think Hit Points are fine as an abstratction so long as you don't have too many of them. To me anything more than 40 or 50 hit points is ridiculous, but YMMV. I think the best way for higher level characters to stay alive in combat can be found, again, in reality: 1) skill, 2) allow the defensive value of the weapons to play a role in the fight. 3) armor. If you allow players to utilize their own tactics with their characters (realistic martial arts based) skills to improve their luck in combat, they won't get hit so often, and if you assume armor works (like in real life) then armor will protect them from injuries much better. But I do like a more grim / bloody system than most people do.

Swords and staves and spears aren't just for attacking, they work pretty well for defense: displacing attacks made against you and fending people off. Just the threat of having a weapon will give an opponent pause. I never understood why this wasn't factored into more games...

And in DnD of course you can also add 4) Magic which you can take as far as you want.

G.

[Galloglaich]

double

[Imperialus]

Originally Posted by Galloglaich

Fair enough, but I think people really misunderstand the effects of a sharp sword, if you know what you are doing with a real sword it takes very little effort to cut through flesh and bone. Swords don't weigh ten pounds and you don't need to be conan to cut things with them. In fact power isn't really an issue it's really all form.

Hijacking your post here but that first video of yours had a link to a very well done full length documentary about Medieval and Renaissance fighting styles

YouTube - Renaissance Martial Arts - the Web...