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If this was his prediction verbatim, then his prediction is correct. I have chosen the OGL version and rejected the changes of 4E. There are many, many others like me.
If his prediction was that MOST people or ALL people would do so, then I agree, his prediction seems to be incorrect. (But without the lack of real data, who knows?)
I'd have to agree with you. I am eagerly awaiting the final version of Pathfinder as well as Fantasy Craft and Song of Ice and Fire. Two OGL and a spin off of the OGL. I've also picked up Ubiquity which is a new system used in Hollow Earth Expedition and post apocalyptic "Desolation." The point being, that despite having mixed feelings about 4e and owning just about every book to date, I'm looking for something better than 4e. Heck even Arcanis' possible variant OGL is sounding promising.
Another way of seeing how well D&D is doing is by looking at Amazon's ratings. Their down right horrible for the most part with the average for the corebooks being 3 stars.
Until OGL has had a chance to weigh in against D&D you really can't say that his prediction is false. I think we're just getting ready to see how wrong or right he really was come the end of the year or a year from now.
__________________ DM4Hire
"What doesn't kill you will probably turn you into a vampire, a werewolf, or a zombie." - Myself
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IIRC he predicted "the majority of players" would reject it. Which apparently didn't happen.
I would argue this. I know many people that bought the core books, tried it, and shelved it.
There is no empirical evidence what so ever for this stand. Anecdotal is all you will have. Sales will not prove ryan dancey wrong. What are people playing?
In my two stores (Ifrequent them I do not own them), I see Magic and Warhammer MOST, followed by OGL games mostly MUTANTS AND MASTERMINDS and D20 modern. I ask alot of these gamers why, they say they no longer liked D&D and largely abandoned it.
I did not abandon it, I play 3.5 and WHFRP.
Anecdotal only I understand, but this makes me convinced 4e is not the master of the market place.
Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.
__________________ DM4Hire
"What doesn't kill you will probably turn you into a vampire, a werewolf, or a zombie." - Myself
"This is Sky Captain. I'm on my way." - Joe "Sky Captain" Sullivan
That's ridiculous. And it shows that you simply don't have a clue when it comes to the Power Card creation scene here on ENWorld. I'm quite positive that none of us who made designs of power cards are WotC plants.
I did not call or imply you are a plant. Please think a bit on the message before rushing to put words into my mouth. Is it so hard to see what I am talking about? Lets take the discussion out on a different level. Do we have a clue when people need to vote about elections what is going on? Of course not every voter expressing his political opinion is a plant. A vast minority of them is. But that vast minority is the minority that invests more money and has more interest into it than all the others individually.
In marketing and big business, if you could, you would see things a lot, but a lot stranger than this. As in elections, legal and illegal. These strange things happen behind the scenes. But it is not hard to figure out they happen and some times we actually find out about a tiny bit of them.
Conspiracy theories? Yes. But to say that strange things such as this do not or have not happened is very naive IMO.
Honestly this makes me wonder how well WotC's products and DDI are doing... you'd think if they were doing extraordinary they wouldn't be sweating little things like this. But that's neither here nor there and admittedly I could be totally off base with that.
just as a reply to Imaro's comment, you may be interested in this post over at The Core Mechanic for some details:
Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.
The problem is that if WotC doesn't defend their trademarks now, they cannot defend them later. There is a principle in law that amounts to, "You let me do it before, you can't start complaining now"- WotC simply doesn't have the option to ignore known large-scale infringement.
Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.
The C&D didn't have anything to do with the release of power cards. It had everything to do with the fact that there were verbatim direct copies of the powers from the Player's Handbook, et al.
Also, why threaten a threatening letter? That's all a C&D is. In effect they say, "We see that you are using copyrighted material from books we published. Please remove the copyrighted material or else we may be forced to sue you for copyright infringement." That's it. I don't understand why people are getting hung up on the C&D.
As someone who made power cards and then put them up online back in summer 2008, I understand both the market for the product and the desires people had for pre-printed cards. After awhile I came to my senses and stopped making pre-printed cards because it IS copyright infringement. I focused on creating templates and left it at that. I use power cards from MSE that I co-designed, but for my own use and not distributed across the internet, which is neither copyright infringement nor illegal.
The issue is the distribution of copyrighted material not licensed away by the copyright holder. If WotC had distributed the powers under a Creative Commons License, then as long as the website was following the CCL there wouldn't be a problem. But they didn't. They own the whole copyright and no one has a right to distribute that without the express permission of WotC.
To put it another way - say I write a book of short stories (or poems, which is more likely for me) and then I publish them. If I go onto a website and someone is distributing some, but not all, of my poems that is copyright infringement. If I post a few of those poems on my website to garner interest, that's fine. But anyone who then takes that from my website and posts it on their's is also infringing my copyright.
Copyright gives the author of a product sole control over its distribution and protects their "right" to own the "copy" (that is the text of the product) until the date of his death +70 years.
The problem is that if WotC doesn't defend their trademarks now, they cannot defend them later. There is a principle in law that amounts to, "You let me do it before, you can't start complaining now"- WotC simply doesn't have the option to ignore known large-scale infringement.
But... They *did* ignore it up till now and them getting their own product ready.
But... They *did* ignore it up till now and them getting their own product ready.
earler in this thread scott rouse told us they found out about it at the end of Jan...they took less then a month to issue a C&D...how is that ignoreing it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Rouse
The web site in question had approximately 1825 full text power card entries. Of those 1 was a homebrew power. It also used Player's Handbook trade dress and the Dungeons & Dragons logo. The GSL does not allow for this type of use. FWIW, I saw this site for the first time on January 5th.
Now who here sereisly wants to defend this web site the broke all those laws??
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I'd have to agree with you. I am eagerly awaiting the final version of Pathfinder as well as Fantasy Craft and Song of Ice and Fire. Two OGL and a spin off of the OGL.
A SoIF is definitely not a spin off, by the hobby's senses. It is what is called as "independent"? "Not D20"?
But... They *did* ignore it up till now and them getting their own product ready.
No. They didn't. They found out about the site near the beginning of January, and then probably spent time cataloging the points of infringement on the site so that they could provide it to the owners of the website. Once they were completely cataloged, they sent off the C&D. Allowing for time for mail delivery, writing of the letter by legal staff, and time by WotC staffers to ID all of the violations of IP, this is pretty rapid turnaround time.
edited timeline to correct my error
Last edited by mudbunny; 20th February 2009 at 05:37 PM..
Interesting... what I'm taking from this, and I could be totally off base, is...
Hasbro wants a piece of the "digital" gaming pie, whatever that entails...
D&D was made a part of that initiative, and plenty of money was spent on DDI's development and marketing up to this point (Oh, yeah and lets not forget about the expenditures on the now defunct Gleemax).
Games and puzzles for the full year were down slightly in profit. And down an even greater amount in the fourth quarter.
Interpretation: Yeah, Hasbro is expecting WotC to make DDI a major success, one way or another. Wonder how well they've succeeded up to this point, since no mention of profits from this "digital" gaming initiative is made.
__________________ Nobody built like me, I designed myself ...as an
Now who here sereisly wants to defend this web site the broke all those laws??
I do not believe anybody is defending this web site. They are rather being critic towards Wotc for various reasons. Two different things. And I would appreciate if you cared to answer my question. Why would you rather let D&D -that you love so much as a fan- let it die, than let some other company than Wotc, a company that has proven to be able to cover its fan demands-like Paizo for example- take care of it.
I would appreciate if you cared to answer my question. Why would you rather let D&D -that you love so much as a fan- let it die, than let some other company than Wotc, a company that has proven to be able to cover its fan demands-like Paizo for example- take care of it.
I forked that becuse priate cat asked us to not derail...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
Convert to Pathfinder RPG
All old and news rule-stuff is OGL
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Last edited by Brix; 20th February 2009 at 05:37 PM..
What's annoying is that unless someone has pirated copies of the rules and hasn't in any way compensated WotC for playing 4e, there just isn't any harm in using a site like 4E Powercards.
Except, it sounds like pirating copies of the rules is what that site did. They reprinted copyrighted material. It isn't any different that broadcasting only the last quarter of the Superbowl without the NFL's permission.
As far as the moral issue? I feel that creators should be able to control what is done with their creations, as long as it is legal, even if it has negative consquences for the creator. For example: Even if file sharing sites helps Metallica sell records, Metallica has the moral (and legal) right to say that they don't want their work to be pirated.
Of course I realize that there is a pervasive entitlement culture out there that thinks anyone who creates a song, movie, play, tv show, book, manga, or game is morally obligated to let people have it for free. In the name of respecting the fans of course.
I just don't think I should have to subsidize other people's entertainment. It costs money to develop this stuff. Everyone who uses it should pay thier share of the costs.
No. They didn't. They found out about the site near the end of January, and then probably spent time cataloging the points of infringement on the site so that they could provide it to the owners of the website. Once they were completely cataloged, they sent off the C&D. Allowing for time for mail delivery, writing of the letter by legal staff, and time by WotC staffers to ID all of the violations of IP, this is pretty rapid turnaround time.
Just a correction...they (or at least Scott) found out about the website at the beginning of January, not the end...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Rouse
...
FWIW, I saw this site for the first time on January 5th...
__________________ Nobody built like me, I designed myself ...as an
Going back on topic I also think that it would have been better for WotC not to send a C&D but a letter stating that with the pending release of the actual cards that the site conduct a review and remove any material that might become an infringement upon release. Thereby warning that a C&D would result once WotC had an actual product on store shelves.
But that first letter would be a cease and desist letter. A letter asking someone to stop doing something is, by definition, a C&D.
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No. They didn't. They found out about the site near the beginning of January, and then probably spent time cataloging the points of infringement on the site so that they could provide it to the owners of the website. Once they were completely cataloged, they sent off the C&D. Allowing for time for mail delivery, writing of the letter by legal staff, and time by WotC staffers to ID all of the violations of IP, this is pretty rapid turnaround time.
edited timeline to correct my error
Hmm, I guess that's the "more important stuff" they're choosing to spend their lawyer's time on rather than the fansite guidelines or the revised GSL.
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