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The creation of a copy by an individual, for personal use (probably) falls under fair use. I say probably because fair use is not very clearly defined.
However, what is clearly defined is the exclusive right of the copyright holder to distribute the information. As soon as those "for personal use" cards are posted on a public website, you are distributing that copywritten information. That is a violation of the copyright. And since 1997's NET act, such distribution can even be a criminal act if in sufficient quantities.
edit: This is, of course, assuming that the powers which the cards represent are from WotC's published and copywritten books, and not new powers written by the card creator.
No contest sir. I was merely trying to draw the poster out in conversation. My players are disappointed, but I'm not prepared to argue on the site's behalf. Not from a legal point of view anyway. WOTC is within their rights.
From a Public Relations perspective, I think this is unfortunate. I understand that a company must defend its copyright, or risk losing it. However this sort of thing is often just interpreted as the Company trying to sell more product exclusively.
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While Wizards is perfectly within their rights to protect their copyrights and IP by doing all of this, it seems a disservice to the community. Many will shell out for the "official" card. IMO, this restricts gamers from playing the game more often by taking away a minor, handy tool that you need to play. Why force everyone to copy it onto their own index card themselves? Why not incent more playing of the game?
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I'm on WotC's side on this one, hands down. Sounds like Ryan's site was pretty neat and had some cool functionality, but also sounds like it pretty clearly violated WotC's IP rights.
If you want to put up a fansite for BLANK power cards, go ahead!
If you want to put up a fansite for power cards with prefilled into straight outta WotC's rulebooks . . . . you deserve a smackdown.
Why should WotC allow some fan who didn't do his homework to create a site (or product) that directly competes with their online offerings (Charcter Builder) and print offerings (this spring's power card decks) using their own IP? Expecting them to allow that kind of crap for "public relations" or as a "fan service" is just ridiculous IMO.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
I wonder if this might affect publishers who produce books with power cards based on new content.
One would think it's OK to do so, but if WOTC determines it's an infringement on their design... hmmm.
Maybe I should rethink publishing power cards with my first 4e supplement.
Time to talk to my lawyer.
Yes, you should talk to your lawyer.
But I'm pretty sure printing blank power cards or power cards with non-WotC powers on them is okay. It's offering power cards with WotC power info on them that is the problem and is also clearly an IP violation.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
WotC is losing a lot of money on different forms of pirated content. Would it be bad PR if they served a similar order at someone distributing PHB pdfs? Not likely, people are far more cautious on what side they take on the piracy debate. How is this occurance essentially different though? This site did distribute a rather large part of the PHB illegally. It seems that while it is easier to criticize the anonymous distribution of pirated IP through vast networks we seem on the fence when the same action is taken by a member of the community. Vernacular morality (not a kosher term I guess but still, I feel, fitting) is irrational.
But I'm pretty sure printing blank power cards or power cards with non-WotC powers on them is okay. It's offering power cards with WotC power info on them that is the problem and is also clearly an IP violation.
I could be wrong (probably am, which is why I'm going to talk to my lawyer), but it seems to me that even selling the power card DESIGN is a violation of their trade dress, especially if they (WOTC) start selling them.
I mean, you can't do that with Magic: The Gathering cards.
They were complete powercards based upon the PHB. It had a rather neat functionality: You could "build" a deck of power cards by selecting just the ones you needed. The site would then generate a document that would allow you to print out the power cards you had specifically selected.
I am neither approving or condemning, but as far as design, layout, and function, it was a pretty neat site.
Not suprising then it got the smackdown though.
I mean I have a copy of counter collection digital from Fiery Dragon. (Awesome btw!) If I made a site where a DM could select the monsters in an encounter and have it generate a document that would populate with the monster pictures from that collection... Would anyone agree that's fair to FD?
Why should WotC allow some fan who didn't do his homework to create a site (or product) that directly competes with their online offerings (Charcter Builder) and print offerings (this spring's power card decks) using their own IP? Expecting them to allow that kind of crap for "public relations" or as a "fan service" is just ridiculous IMO.
I respect your right to feel differently. Particularly since the majority of posters concede that WOTC is in the right. Even those that are disappointed.
However, you attack people for the way they think. That's not necessary. Loaded words like "ridiculous" and "crap" are just designed to get an emotional response. They're not needed in a mature conversation.
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I could be wrong (probably am, which is why I'm going to talk to my lawyer), but it seems to me that even selling the power card DESIGN is a violation of their trade dress, especially if they (WOTC) start selling them.
I mean, you can't do that with Magic: The Gathering cards.
My non-trained understanding is that forms are meant to be filled out, so it is harder to claim infringement on something like a power card with your own information filled in it. And certainly you could get away with something that ended up being really close to the official power cards (but leaving off the DnD 4e logo on the bottom) for example.
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I could be wrong (probably am, which is why I'm going to talk to my lawyer), but it seems to me that even selling the power card DESIGN is a violation of their trade dress, especially if they (WOTC) start selling them.
I mean, you can't do that with Magic: The Gathering cards.
Well, if you use the exact same power card template that WotC uses, then yeah, that probably wouldn't fly. Although various card magazines do mock up Magic cards all the time (although they may have done it with permission, I don't know).
But if you design your own power card template, even if it is strikingly similiar to the official cards, you should be okay. I'm pretty sure you can't copyright or trademark a form. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it!
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
My non-trained understanding is that forms are meant to be filled out, so it is harder to claim infringement on something like a power card with your own information filled in it. And certainly you could get away with something that ended up being really close to the official power cards (but leaving off the DnD 4e logo on the bottom) for example.
My non-trained understanding is that forms are meant to be filled out, so it is harder to claim infringement on something like a power card with your own information filled in it. And certainly you could get away with something that ended up being really close to the official power cards (but leaving off the DnD 4e logo on the bottom) for example.
I think this is relevant (if you have signed the GSL)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The SRD
Use the stat block templates identified and included in
the SRD as guidelines (not constraints) for producing your
own original content requiring such formatting. Since your
content will resemble like content in the Core Rulebooks, it
will be more readily usable. You may not reproduce the
blank stat block templates included in the SRD in a
Licensed Product.
If you haven't signed the SRD you might be in the clear... because it's just a form... But I don't know. I am not a lawyer.
Well, if you use the exact same power card template that WotC uses, then yeah, that probably wouldn't fly. Although various card magazines do mock up Magic cards all the time (although they may have done it with permission, I don't know).
But if you design your own power card template, even if it is strikingly similiar to the official cards, you should be okay. I'm pretty sure you can't copyright or trademark a form. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it!
It's also something I've been noticing in 3pp supplements; graphic design/layouts that are strikingly similar to the 4e books. On one hand, I think the layouts are interesting and it's theoretically good for business to put out a product that has a similar feel to the core rules. But on the other hand, I know you can get into big trouble if you infringe on someone's trade dress.
They copied/pasted, word for word, etc... straight from WOTC's books to create these power cards? If so, yes, they were clearly in violation of copyright law. Could they make power cards based on the 4E rules, written in their own words, done with their own layout design and art, etc....? I would think it would be worth asking a experienced IP lawyer about.
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I mean I have a copy of counter collection digital from Fiery Dragon. (Awesome btw!) If I made a site where a DM could select the monsters in an encounter and have it generate a document that would populate with the monster pictures from that collection... Would anyone agree that's fair to FD?
Not me.
I reported the event.
I said I was disappointed, but I understood the legalities and the reasons behind doing it.
And I maintain it's quite alright to feel that way. I won't apologize for it. I haven't sworn never to give WOTC my business again. I haven't called WOTC any names. I haven't spoken disrespectful to one single poster in this thread. I acknowledged the legitimacy of WOTC's action.
You guys just want somebody to fight with, don't ya?
I'm not your man.
Feeling disappointed is just that, a feeling. I'm not a slave to my feeling, but I'm not going to apologize for it either. I like to think we all secretly hope for an easier world than the one we have. If that is irrational as one poster recently wrote, so be it.
So... I have reported some news. Make of it what you will. I'll kindly excuse myself from the rest of the thread.
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I wouldn't worry about character sheets, for the most part. Blank character sheets are essentially a form, something that isn't protected material. Anyone can pretty much make a form for anything, including for use with other peoples material, systems, mechanics, or products. However, it can't contain copyrighted IP on it. If your blank character sheet has pre-printed IP on it: such as feat descriptions; skill descriptions; powers, and lists of these items (except skills - I don't know of any skill that has a name that isn't a common use word) - in other words, verbatim text from WoTC products, then they could be targeted. If they also have drop-downs containing that information, they may be targeted. But, a basically blank character sheet, even one that has labels for things like: abilities, skills, hp's, etc. - should be okay since it's basically a blank form. However, filled out character sheets may also be open to targeting, but I don't know about this one. Maybe some of ENWorlds resident lawyer members could weigh in (paging joethelawyer).
Along the same lines, I would think (as some others have already said here) that blank power cards, and power cards with original fan-created material (not verbatim WoTC IP text) should be okay. You probably don't even need to sign the GSL, as long as you don't specifically mention Dungeons & Dragons, WoTC, Fourth Edition, etc., or use any copyrighted material or terms. Of course, everyone will know what they are for, but as long as you don't specifically say it, I think you'd be okay. Now if you start charging money for them, all bets may be off, but I'm not sure about that.
Of course though, as others have said before, even if you are legal, a cease and desist could be issued anyways. In which case it's up to you to fight it or not. If someone doesn't have the money to fight, even if they aren't doing something illegal, and shuts down because of it, I guess it doesn't really matter whether they were right or not. However, in all fairness I've never heard of WoTC doing this. (TSR did it as a matter of course, and it worked, except for the whole destroying the industry thing - but I've never heard of WoTC doing it.)
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- but I've never heard of WoTC doing it.)
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