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The fansite policy is being worked on. I was in a planning meeting today and it was being discussed and appropriately prioritized. I have read the draft and my personal opinion is that it looks very good.
that is great news...
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These will be guidelines and not a treatise on IP law. The fan site policy will not be a replacement for legal advice or common sense.
that is bad news...I mean if sense were common more people would have it right???
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The web site in question had approximately 1825 full text power card entries. Of those 1 was a homebrew power. It also used Player's Handbook trade dress and the Dungeons & Dragons logo. The GSL does not allow for this type of use.
The sad part scott is there will still be people calling for WotC blood...and crying foul...but thank you for those of us trying to be the voices of reason to have you guys be so forthright is a BIG load off atleast my mind...
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I'd be willing to bet it's so close to zero only an insurance company would notice.
Scott mentioned a site with all the D&D books available for downloads, and that there had been 9,000 downloads. Now, I have no idea how many books were in that bundle, but since he also mentioned that the site was just one of many (50?) he was looking into, well.. That's very quickly quite a few books.
__________________
360 hours played
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 22nd level Musings of an Epic Virgin
Then I'd suggest you read more of the thread. It's a pretty cut-n-dried case, and I don't think it's shaping up to be a PR issue of any kind. It's not even something that needs a fan site policy to cover in this instance.
So could you tell me if, as far as we know, the first contact the site had from WotC was the Cease and Desist? That is a very large issue for me, and one that I think has a huge degree of relevance here. Back before 4E launched, WotC asked ENWorld to stop people from posting large excerpts of their online content to the page, and they complied. There's a stickied note to that effect on the top of the page. They could have sent out a Cease and Desist, but they didn't, and everything goes on. There's a huge difference in how you approach a situation like this from the very beginning, so it's important to me to know how it went down. So if anyone could be so kind as to let me know the scoop (or if we simply don't know it) I'll move on to another thread (I promise!)
--Steve
__________________ Be a rebel...order your coffee in one of these three radical sizes: small, medium or large.
"Sure as I know anything, I know this. I aim to misbehave."
--Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity
I play 4E, and it's every bit as much Dungeons and Dragons as any other edition, including the one(s) you play. No more, and no less.
So could you tell me if, as far as we know, the first contact the site had from WotC was the Cease and Desist? That is a very large issue for me, and one that I think has a huge degree of relevance here.
steve...did you read any of the last page were I was trying to explain that is what a C&D is...a friendly letter asking you to stop something...
If I were a company, and my game was an industry, and my players other company's then a C&D would be the same as when I look at my friend Kurt and say "Please...just let it go so we can get on with game..."
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
If I were a company, and my game was an industry, and my players other company's then a C&D would be the same as when I look at my friend Kurt and say "Please...just let it go so we can get on with game..."
???? I no think so. I not give give legal paper to friend, for the game.
Scott mentioned a site with all the D&D books available for downloads, and that there had been 9,000 downloads. Now, I have no idea how many books were in that bundle, but since he also mentioned that the site was just one of many (50?) he was looking into, well.. That's very quickly quite a few books.
Kind of right. It was 9,000 separate document entries. Do the math.
???? I no think so. I not give give legal paper to friend, for the game.
ok I have may have said it wrong...it is an analogy...
it is just a way to ask someone you do not know to stop doing something...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
???? I no think so. I not give give legal paper to friend, for the game.
A Cease and Desist letter is not a legal (as in a judge sent it and if you don't follow it the police will arrest you) letter. It will typically mention that legal action is a possibility, but that's better than threatening to break kneecaps or something.
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
One of the things that I've been interested in is why some people seem to 'blindly' agree with WotC actions even when those actions, if performed by another company, would gather huge customer uprising. How many times have you been on the forums of a MMORPG and seen people threatening class action lawsuits because some class got nerfed or a notoriety system was put into place for player killers.
There's nothing 'blind' about agreeing that the situation was a clear violation of copyright law. There is no basis for a huge uprising - the MMORPG examples you give are in no way parallel to the situation.
In fact, it has nothing to do with 'loving' WotC, but more with whether or not you agree with copyright law itself.
For the most part, people in this thread seem to understand that - even if they're disappointed with the decision. Being able to hold and express both those opinions I think is a sign of a more mature, reasonable group of people than you'll find on some MMORPG boards.
Thanks ENWorld!
__________________ "Sometimes we buy books because we think we're buying the time to read them." - Warren Zevon
A Cease and Desist letter is not a legal (as in a judge sent it and if you don't follow it the police will arrest you) letter. It will typically mention that legal action is a possibility, but that's better than threatening to break kneecaps or something.
do they break knee cap for the game? I not understand what man did wrong. He love game, and give it on his website for the people to see. They must be happy for this one.
One could point out a variety of evidence, from a vocal outcry, to the crappy GSL, Paizo's salkes increase monthly from the announcement of 4e, to the sellout of Pathfinder as a strong indicator of alleged splintering.
How big? I could not oin down a actual percentage, and its probably small, but its there.
But since your pretty strong in your conviction, I dont suppose YOU have any numbers, now do you? Didnt think so.
I might not have any hard numbers, but let's compare them to yours.
You have a "vocal" outcry (on Enworld) where a whole 600 out of 70.000 were so displeased with 4e that they chose to vote (in a poll that could be could be cheated with) about the fact that they aren't playing no more.
A crappy GSL? What on earth does that have to do with proving there is a splintering?
Paizo's increased sales? Last I checked, the only thing we know about that is a comment by Mona. Again, assuming you take what Mona says at face value (since no numbers have been released), I find it funny that you do not take Scott's or Mearls' or Slavicecks word at equal face value. But I guess this explains by the comments in my first post. Also, we have no idea about how much the increased sales are, it could be 1% or it could be 5000%.
Compared to that, we have 4e books selling more than the previous edition, according to places like US Today top 150, making it to the yearly amazon top 100 sales list. Every statement we have seen from WotC indicates that 4e outsold 3.x by quite a bit.
Does that sound like a splintered marked?
Not to me. Then again, I guess it depends on the word splintered. If you mean that they lost the usual 5-15% in an edition change, then sure, the marked is splintered. But if you are talking about 50% or something equally silly, then no, I do not believe we have anything that even ressembles a splintered marked.
I will also note that neither you nor I have any solid proof. Mine is just better by miles.
Cheers
__________________
360 hours played
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 22nd level Musings of an Epic Virgin
I might not have any hard numbers, but let's compare them to yours.
You have a "vocal" outcry (on Enworld) where a whole 600 out of 70.000 were so displeased with 4e that they chose to vote (in a poll that could be could be cheated with) about the fact that they aren't playing no more.
A crappy GSL? What on earth does that have to do with proving there is a splintering?
Paizo's increased sales? Last I checked, the only thing we know about that is a comment by Mona. Again, assuming you take what Mona says at face value (since no numbers have been released), I find it funny that you do not take Scott's or Mearls' or Slavicecks word at equal face value. But I guess this explains by the comments in my first post. Also, we have no idea about how much the increased sales are, it could be 1% or it could be 5000%.
Compared to that, we have 4e books selling more than the previous edition, according to places like US Today top 150, making it to the yearly amazon top 100 sales list. Every statement we have seen from WotC indicates that 4e outsold 3.x by quite a bit.
Does that sound like a splintered marked?
Not to me. Then again, I guess it depends on the word splintered. If you mean that they lost the usual 5-15% in an edition change, then sure, the marked is splintered. But if you are talking about 50% or something equally silly, then no, I do not believe we have anything that even ressembles a splintered marked.
I will also note that neither you nor I have any solid proof. Mine is just better by miles.
Scott mentioned a site with all the D&D books available for downloads, and that there had been 9,000 downloads. Now, I have no idea how many books were in that bundle, but since he also mentioned that the site was just one of many (50?) he was looking into, well.. That's very quickly quite a few books.
do they break knee cap for the game? I not understand what man did wrong. He love game, and give it on his website for the people to see. They must be happy for this one.
Yes, he took the majority of the content of the PHB and posted it on his website. That violates copyright law, the law that give WotC the exclusive right to publish the PHB content. WotC sent him a letter stating that they felt he was violating their copyright and that they wanted him to take the website down. They probably listed the relevant laws that they felt were on their side. They likely said to do this within some timeframe (say three weeks) or they would consider actually starting a lawsuit.
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
There's nothing 'blind' about agreeing that the situation was a clear violation of copyright law. There is no basis for a huge uprising - the MMORPG examples you give are in no way parallel to the situation.
In fact, it has nothing to do with 'loving' WotC, but more with whether or not you agree with copyright law itself.
For the most part, people in this thread seem to understand that - even if they're disappointed with the decision. Being able to hold and express both those opinions I think is a sign of a more mature, reasonable group of people than you'll find on some MMORPG boards.
Thanks ENWorld!
Your posts weren't one of the ones I was referring to. That's why I decided to move my post to a new thread. I think my idea really is separate from the specific case we're discussing here.
Yes, he took the majority of the content of the PHB and posted it on his website. That violates copyright law, the law that give WotC the exclusive right to publish the PHB content. WotC sent him a letter stating that they felt he was violating their copyright and that they wanted him to take the website down. They probably listed the relevant laws that they felt were on their side. They likely said to do this within some timeframe (say three weeks) or they would consider actually starting a lawsuit.
Murad, I don't care if you love D&D or hate it. If you're going to participate here, though, please stop with the insults. They aren't going to be tolerated.
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
Murad, I don't care if you love D&D or hate it. If you're going to participate here, though, please stop with the insults. They aren't going to be tolerated.
Is not insult. is opinion on game. I see many, many insult to the 3rd edition here.
Fair use covers relatively small amounts of copying. The website in question was copying upwards of 50 to 60 % of the entire book. Fair use is typically understood to be a paragraph or two.
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
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