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Location: “Over the Hills and Far Away” - (TDY in Florida - "Home" is Michigan)
Posts: 1,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by darjr
I'm trying to say that I don't think you have any idea what your talking about.
I thought of a lot of ways I'd Like to respond to this. Instead, I decided I'd just let you respond to it, in your own words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darjr
... I've been paying WAY TO MUCH attention to your posts. I'm getting very tired of your belittling and condescending attitude as well. It is rude, unneeded and unproductive.
Have a nice day.
__________________ Mark "El Mahdi" Armstrong - Semper Operor Verus
". . . after all, that is why we're here. Kill the last bad guy and then there's cake." - Major General Jack O'Neal
"Don't Just Do It, Just Do It Right!"
"Right, without Reason, is unmitigated Foolishness."
"If you make a mistake, Acknowledge It, then make it Right."
I thought of a lot of ways I'd Like to respond to this. Instead, I decided I'd just let you respond to it, in your own words.
Have a nice day.
justanobody? You did that one to your self. You've been carrying that chip on your shoulder this whole time?
Anyways, it still remains that writing software is a hard business. One of the most successful and powerful companies in the world has a difficult time meeting their own goals.
I think you've agreed with that in at least one post edit or another, but you return to this idea that it's as simple as not lying. It isn't. Innocent, honest, hardworking folks fail at delivering software all the time through no fault of their own.
I was never keen on 4E. I told myself I'd wait a year and by then the virtual tabletop would be up and running. That's what interested me. I'd be able to run regular D&D games with players around the world whenever I wanted, via an official D&D medium no less.
Today, nothing about 4E impresses me. I meet people all the time who dislike 4E. Some never tried it, some did and didn't like it. However you cut it, there's a heck of a lot of D&D players out there who don't like 4E. If I had to guess, it's probably in the 35-40% range. That's a lot.
With the debacle that has been WotC online services, and now the looming cancellation of the virtual tabletop, I have no interest in getting into 4E.
I'm sticking with 3.5 but even then I anticipate my enjoyment of D&D diminishing as the already small group of D&D players shrinks as they slowly convert to 4E or quit altogether. I'll likely be in the latter camp. Which is a shame since I've been gaming for 20+ years but with the way the game is going I'm almost ready to move on.
__________________ Are you a player looking to join a D&D game in the Toronto area? Send me an email at fenris_wolff@hotmail.com
The game table is mentioned here, with links to screen shots... D&DI on boingboing
the wording of it makes it seem like something still in progress (rather than a dead project)
Edit: Okay, never mind. the post on WotC's main page leading to the article just appeared so I thought it was new, but it is taking you to an article from last year (Feb 2008).
__________________ If you're bored and like to follow links provided by random strangers, check out my ENWorld Blog http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/fba827/
It will have campaign logs and random thoughts...
Last edited by fba827; 26th February 2009 at 06:07 AM..
Anyways, it still remains that writing software is a hard business. One of the most successful and powerful companies in the world has a difficult time meeting their own goals.
Certainly. It is pretty much a known fact. And that is what makes it troubling that WotC management and marketing went ahead with the advertising of the features as being available at the release of 4e. They could have saved themselves a lot of these headaches by initialy labeling these products as "coming soon" or "in the near future" or even not advertise them at all until they were ready to beta test them. Instead, they used these tools to help sell people on 4e. For some of us, that is the reason we bought in. It would be like Sony selling me an HDTV only I would have to wait seven months to get the HD part. Sure, I could still watch TV over that time but I didn't get what I paid for.
Location: “Over the Hills and Far Away” - (TDY in Florida - "Home" is Michigan)
Posts: 1,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by darjr
justanobody? You did that one to your self. You've been carrying that chip on your shoulder this whole time?
Anyways, it still remains that writing software is a hard business. One of the most successful and powerful companies in the world has a difficult time meeting their own goals.
I think you've agreed with that in at least one post edit or another, but you return to this idea that it's as simple as not lying. It isn't. Innocent, honest, hardworking folks fail at delivering software all the time through no fault of their own.
I'm not going to carry on this argument any longer. You and I obviously have very different ideas when it comes to this. We are just going to have to accept that our standards are very different (well, I'll accept it, whether you do is up to you).
However, there is one thing I very much want to clear up.
I don't know where you got an idea that I'm justanobody, but I suggest you actually check my profile. I don't alt troll. I don't obfuscate, lie or hide. I have but one profile on here and this is it. You have made a significant mistake with regards to this. If you want confirmation on that, please contact me through my profile and we can discuss this further.
I easily found that quote by looking at your profile (give it a try) and clicking a link to a post that MustrumRudcully gave you experience for. It wasn't exactly dificult to find, but it was fortuitous for me. Interesting how things like that can come back to haunt people though.
Good day to you. I hope you continue to enjoy the thread, but you'll do so without me.
__________________ Mark "El Mahdi" Armstrong - Semper Operor Verus
". . . after all, that is why we're here. Kill the last bad guy and then there's cake." - Major General Jack O'Neal
"Don't Just Do It, Just Do It Right!"
"Right, without Reason, is unmitigated Foolishness."
"If you make a mistake, Acknowledge It, then make it Right."
The game table is mentioned here, with links to screen shots... D&DI on boingboing
the wording of it makes it seem like something still in progress (rather than a dead project)
Edit: Okay, never mind. the post on WotC's main page leading to the article just appeared so I thought it was new, but it is taking you to an article from last year (Feb 2008).
Yeah. That's wierd. Like a news item from the same day last year got automatically posted. Guessing it was a mistake.
I don't know where you got an idea that I'm justanobody, but I suggest you actually check my profile...
Oh, alright.
Wow, man, don't scare me that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fba827
The game table is mentioned here, with links to screen shots... D&DI on boingboing
the wording of it makes it seem like something still in progress (rather than a dead project)
Edit: Okay, never mind. the post on WotC's main page leading to the article just appeared so I thought it was new, but it is taking you to an article from last year (Feb 2008).
Ouch. I actually showed up to post this, but it appears you've not only beat me to it, but pointed out a fatal error. This looks like a big mistake. HOWEVER...
I think it is indeed a sign that they intend to continue with the Game Table project. This might sound simple of me, but you'd think that if they were scrapping such a big project, there's be some kind of memo around with the gist of "All Wizards employees: don't talk about the Game Table. Sensative subject, best not to address it now". It almost feels like their way of saying that it's still coming without saying that it's still coming, if you catch my drift.
Yeah, if tonight's update is a link to screens of Game Table and company, it seems clear that these are not dead projects.
If 'dildo' can briefly show up as a word of the day on Hasbro's official Scrabble site, then a year old link can easily slip past any review and show up as new news on WotC.
__________________ "I can just see the 4e adventure anthology "Tale from the Limited Staircase"." - Ken Marable
I was very happy to log onto the D&D site today and see the link to these screenshots. Though the Gametable doesn't look like it has progressed a whole lot since the last batch of screenshots, I can at least sigh in relief knowing that WotC hasn't abandoned it and is still actively working to complete it.
Thanks WotC... and please keep us updated.
__________________ Go then. There are other worlds than these.
Yeah. That's wierd. Like a news item from the same day last year got automatically posted. Guessing it was a mistake.
Yeah, but the editorial calendar article is also dated 2008, and it's clearly current (or at least not a 2008 article). So I don't know how to interpret the 2008 date on the WotC side.
The boingboing page, however, is clearly 2008, not just from the date, but also because of the reference to the upcoming DDXP in Washington DC.
So is this some indication that the Game Table is still a live project? Answer hazy, try again later.
Do I trust that they'll end up getting th other stuff out there? Sure, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I wouldn't give them money for it until I see it. IE if they raise the price because they're going to "have the GT up and running real soon!" they wouldn't see me pay that raised price until it actually WAS up and running.
Bingo. This is exactly my point. Not that you have to be happy with WotC's performance, or that you should blindly hand them your money. Just that refusing to extend the benefit of the doubt is an extreme reaction, and that the standards some people are setting are too high for WotC, or anyone who produces software, to realistically be expected to ever meet.
Bingo. This is exactly my point. Not that you have to be happy with WotC's performance, or that you should blindly hand them your money. Just that refusing to extend the benefit of the doubt is an extreme reaction, and that the standards some people are setting are too high for WotC, or anyone who produces software, to realistically be expected to ever meet.
Refusal to give WotC the benefit of the doubt based upon past performance is not an extreme. It's in fact, a highly conservative position because you ahve based it upon the performance already demonstrated in the area.
If 'dildo' can briefly show up as a word of the day on Hasbro's official Scrabble site, then a year old link can easily slip past any review and show up as new news on WotC.
Really? Awesome! Well, if you read through any published work, you're likely to find something out of place, especially in the electronic arena.
Refusal to give WotC the benefit of the doubt based upon past performance is not an extreme. It's in fact, a highly conservative position because you ahve based it upon the performance already demonstrated in the area.
Absolutely fair enough.
But to basically state that nothing they can currently do, or are likely to be able to do within a few years, will allow the benefit of doubt is, I think, extreme.
It seems to me that that's what's being said here.
But to basically state that nothing they can currently do, or are likely to be able to do within a few years, will allow the benefit of doubt is, I think, extreme.
It seems to me that that's what's being said here.
As I stated in my original response to the question of giving them the benefit of the doubt, when they produce the game table, I'll begin giving them the benefit of the doubt again.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WotC_ScottR
There will be no 4.5. It is 4th Edition.
Last edited by Xyxox; 26th February 2009 at 10:23 PM..
I was very happy to log onto the D&D site today and see the link to these screenshots. Though the Gametable doesn't look like it has progressed a whole lot since the last batch of screenshots, I can at least sigh in relief knowing that WotC hasn't abandoned it and is still actively working to complete it.
Thanks WotC... and please keep us updated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avin
Outdated graphics and women are just ugly on that engine.
Those ARE the "last" bunch of screenshots from a year ago. These are NOT new screenshots. This news item from WotC's site is an error and not truly 2009 news.
And, yes, the characters shown in the visualizer screens are still ugly. I really hope they fix that when the Visualizer and Gametable finally go live.
Despite the faux news item, I'm ignoring the naysayers and remain confident that WotC will deliver the Gametable at some point late this year or early next. We'll see.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
Certainly. It is pretty much a known fact. And that is what makes it troubling that WotC management and marketing went ahead with the advertising of the features as being available at the release of 4e. They could have saved themselves a lot of these headaches by initialy labeling these products as "coming soon" or "in the near future" or even not advertise them at all until they were ready to beta test them. Instead, they used these tools to help sell people on 4e. For some of us, that is the reason we bought in. It would be like Sony selling me an HDTV only I would have to wait seven months to get the HD part. Sure, I could still watch TV over that time but I didn't get what I paid for.
See I think part of the issue is we don't know why the delay happened in the first place.
I mean could it have been as simple as everything WAS set to go, on course, ready for roll out day 1... and then Suddenly someone realized that there was some code somewhere that did something bad? Like accidently made getting access to easy, or gave out people's credit card numbers to anyone? Or just a bug that crashed the whole thing?
(I remember the compendium was actually up the night before 4e's release then it dissapeared for a while...)
Then once they tracked down the bug they realized it was something that needed a HUGE rewrite to fix?
A guy who lives next door to me works for a game company making sports games for the xbox... he said they have to send their "final" version to Microsoft to be approved. They send it, all the while working on the game still looking for inevitable bugs. If Microsoft approves the game, they go ahead and release, despite the various bugs they've found. They just release a "patch" sometime down the line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrork the Mighty
Today, nothing about 4E impresses me. I meet people all the time who dislike 4E. Some never tried it, some did and didn't like it. However you cut it, there's a heck of a lot of D&D players out there who don't like 4E. If I had to guess, it's probably in the 35-40% range. That's a lot.
I'm sticking with 3.5 but even then I anticipate my enjoyment of D&D diminishing as the already small group of D&D players shrinks as they slowly convert to 4E or quit altogether. I'll likely be in the latter camp. Which is a shame since I've been gaming for 20+ years but with the way the game is going I'm almost ready to move on.
If you're meeting these people all the time that dislike 4e, why are you having trouble finding people who want to play soemthing other then 4e?
What!? Where? 
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