General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
No offense intended, but a DM with half a brain can make almost any monster a very difficult challenge for almost any party. I mean, the DM is in total control of all of the circumstances of the combat, what healing resources the monsters do or do not have, and all other aspects of the combat.
That being said, the monsters that you have mentioned are certainly capable of winning against many parties. Particularly those who are ill-prepared or even those who have terrible luck with attack/damage rolls.
But, hey, that's just my opinion. In previous editions, monsters who had access to numerous buffs from spells or spell-like abilities were certainly near the top, if not at the very top of the list. I would imagine that holds true for 4E, but I am not sufficiently experienced with the new edition to say so for sure. Still, I hope that you have started a lively debate! Thanks for letting me put in my two coppers.
That's what they were. They can deal 1d10+9 damage, too much for their level. In the first encounter, I believe one character got bit by two of them (max damage each time) and another character got critted. I distinctly recall announcing 38 damage twice. (Ow.)
Also, vampire spawn. They were over-leveled in KotS, so it's probably not really fair to put them in this thread, but effective 1 hit point minions should not be able to kick that much butt. (The Orcus Underpriest in that same encounter also seemed overpowered, but I think there was a typo in the damage stats.)
No offense intended, but a DM with half a brain can make almost any monster a very difficult challenge for almost any party. I mean, the DM is in total control of all of the circumstances of the combat, what healing resources the monsters do or do not have, and all other aspects of the combat.
That being said, the monsters that you have mentioned are certainly capable of winning against many parties. Particularly those who are ill-prepared or even those who have terrible luck with attack/damage rolls.
But, hey, that's just my opinion. In previous editions, monsters who had access to numerous buffs from spells or spell-like abilities were certainly near the top, if not at the very top of the list. I would imagine that holds true for 4E, but I am not sufficiently experienced with the new edition to say so for sure. Still, I hope that you have started a lively debate! Thanks for letting me put in my two coppers.
No offense taken.
It's true that the DM has control over when and where (and by whom) the PC's are attacked; however, some monsters, no matter where they are, and when they attack, are just plain hellish. Sometimes it's easy to tell from looking at a stat block; other times the monster needs a live playtest to see how deadly they are or aren't.
Im just curious to hear people's stories and opinions on what they think pound for pound some of the toughest monsters are. It also enlightens me for those monsters that I havent used: see the Balhannoth.
Hmmmm....this is the opposite of what the thread is about, but what the hell: does anyone else think that the Tarrasque is horribly underpowered in terms of damage output? It seems pretty pathetic for a level 30 solo brute.
No offense intended, but a DM with half a brain can make almost any monster a very difficult challenge for almost any party. I mean, the DM is in total control of all of the circumstances of the comba
Any time you find yourself starting a post with "no offense intended", just don't write it. Otherwise you are likely to find yourself banned.
Just a warning this time.
OK?
__________________ Plane Sailing
(Enworld Admin)
If you need to email me click here
"It makes as much sense as having Batman kill his parents and then go on to fight mutants from another dimension." - Rykion
Wights. Highest damage in the game, because each hit effectively deals 1/4 your max HP...
Not only is it painful, but it also contributes to the 15 min adventuring day... a problem which, despite initial claims to the contrary, actually seems worse not better in 4e. While players can continue fighting without daily powers, once you're out of surges pressing on is pretty much a death sentence IME.
Agreed about the Wights attack on healing surges. All it's going to do is make the adventure stop/start.
Wraiths look quite poor imo. The insubstantial, weakness, regeneration, and ability to ignore terrain just makes these guys look painful and unfun to play.
Actually I think the insubstantial trait is at fault. Ignoring terrain in a tactical board game? A 2nd source for half damage? I'll run one of these guys and see how it plays but if the feedback is what I think It'll be - I'll simply not use it (& similar creatures). Too much effort to fix.
I'm adding guard drakes to my hit list. Basically anything that breaks the defined math is going to get whacked heavily with the nerf stick.
__________________ Love, life, and the pursuit of all that is happiness.
Yes indeed. Have you had em kill any characters before?
Needlefangs actually killed a whole party of 2nd levellers. HAd to say "Okay, retry..." and re-ran the adventure. and it still nearly killed the group.
Other monsters on the list:
1) Grells (Fun, but man are they tough... if you play 'em right, they can fly out of reach of the melee fighters, and just grab and chew on weaker party members... not to mention they can pull people up and drop 'em).
2) Vine Horrors. I posted about how these guys really hurt our party. Mind you, I'd been following the one with the error in it (the Compedium is great, but they unfortunatley listed the VH's encounter as an "At-Will" that really messed things up). VH Spellfiends are also pretty damned tough.
3) Blackscale Bruiser Lizardfolk. They can deal damage, lemme tell you! Mind you, this fight was only really hard because the aforementioned bruiser was also a swordmage. Yikes!
4) Tiefling Heretic. Ran him against a 1st level group, and he was a pain to hit. And a pain to fight. He really could hurt the group.
5) Hobgoblins, in a group, are pretty tough to hit. And they can really lay on a smackdown.
I have another monster I'd love to list, but simply by listing it, I'd give away a bit of my campaign I'm not ready to divulge yet (I have players that read EN World). But it's one you wouldn't expect.
__________________ Current Campaign:The Shattered Isles Homebrew - Hammer (Minotaur Fighter 8), Kirra (Drow Rogue 8), Shedin (Dragonborn Paladin 8), Zahar (Half-Eladrin/Half Drow Bard 8), and Seahorse (Halfling Rogue 8). Currently the group is in the Feywild, trying to discover who is poisoning the drow.
Inspired by this thread I just asked my kid what he thought the toughest monster he's faced was. I suggested the group of 'Chillborn Zombies' with their stacked aura. He said, 'Naw, they were tough on front line party members, but I was fine'. He was playing a wizard.
Kruthik, if they have a Hive Lord with them. He can weaken several PCs every round, his allies deal double damage with basic attack, and they can all burrow in order to flee, ambush, or tactically move if needed.
The poison spikes and auto-damage auras are annoying too.
__________________ Belphanior
"This is a cool sig."
Another vote for the neeflefang drake swarm. At least the guard drake you can kill before it kills you. With a NDS, if you don't have a wizard with area effects you may get overwhelmed without really hurting the monster.
1) Grells (Fun, but man are they tough... if you play 'em right, they can fly out of reach of the melee fighters, and just grab and chew on weaker party members... not to mention they can pull people up and drop 'em).
Just lost my rogue to one of these guys. Every time she saved on the stun, the grell was there to bite her again, and the cycle continued until death, while the other party members were busy with a Beholder. I think she got to act one round that entire encounter. Had plenty of surges too.
He was playing a wizard.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
