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Just curious as to what people think it is. And bear in mind that im not talking about most hit points, or highest defences.
A knee jerk reaction would be to shout Tiamat, or Vecna; they may very well be. But there are other monsters out there that for thier level are very tricky/hard to overcome.
Some notable examples that spring to mind are:
Shadow Hulk (that Maddening Gaze is nasty)
Kyuss (those 5 attacks per round are insane)
Gibbering Orb (that bite attack, gibbering, and Souleating ray...)
Young Blue Dragon (dragons in general really, but that gore attack and 2 claw attacks is pretty heavy for level 5 or 6)
And finally, im not interested in hearing min/maxers spout that there is not tough monster and that a wizard can solo everything; im talking tough for a standard, balanced party.
I find Deathjump Spiders terribly challenging for a group of PC's (3d6+3 damage, knocked prone, poisoned and slowed = owned)
For a level 1 group, Drakes are deadly, specifically, the Needlefang swarm (especially if no wizard) & Guard Drakes (19 possible damage + a lot of hp...)
I find Deathjump Spiders terribly challenging for a group of PC's (3d6+3 damage, knocked prone, poisoned and slowed = owned)
For a level 1 group, Drakes are deadly, specifically, the Needlefang swarm (especially if no wizard) & Guard Drakes (19 possible damage + a lot of hp...)
Lol, yeah Deathjump spiders are brutal; really, if the dm isnt careful, a group of them could fairly easily TPK the pcs
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecasualoblivion
Worst trouble I've seen from a creature has to be the Balhannoth.
You know, ive never run them or honestly paid much them much mind; thier nasty in play?
You know, ive never run them or honestly paid much them much mind; thier nasty in play?
This is a summary of the Balhannoth's turn:
1. It begins its turn invisible
2. It uses a close burst 3 attack while invisible, dealing an extra +2d8 because it has combat advantage(from being invisible if nothing else), and it can slide the targets 3 squares, placing them adjacent to the Balhannoth.
3. It uses a minor action to regain the invisibility it lost for attacking.
4. The Balhannoth teleports up to 10 squares, dazing everything next to it and gaining combat advantage against those it teleports next to. Since it was invisible, nobody knows where the darn thing is.
And the Balhannoth is an Elite...
Only real way to deal with it is to ready attacks for when it becomes visible.
1. It begins its turn invisible
2. It uses a close burst 3 attack while invisible, dealing an extra +2d8 because it has combat advantage(from being invisible if nothing else), and it can slide the targets 3 squares, placing them adjacent to the Balhannoth.
3. It uses a minor action to regain the invisibility it lost for attacking.
4. The Balhannoth teleports up to 10 squares, dazing everything next to it and gaining combat advantage against those it teleports next to. Since it was invisible, nobody knows where the darn thing is.
And the Balhannoth is an Elite...
Only real way to deal with it is to ready attacks for when it becomes visible.
We basically suffered a virtual TPK with these guys:
- Scales of War AP
- 2 x NFD + 1 x Lurker, 500 xp thereabouts, lvl 2 encounter for 4 guys
- close combat scenario, no surprise
- NFD trip as minor action, so can do twice and then bite attack
- Trip is +8 vs fort, so tripping % is tipped in their favour, + can do twice per turn
- Reliable tripping gives NFD combat advantage +2 hit
- Hill giant damage to tripped, i.e. 2d10+4 (vs Giants 2d10+7)
- Aura allows a free hill giant attack, multiple NFD auras apply
Basic Sequence:
- Lurker lands a blow on Pally
- Paladin is wounded so second winds + holy circle + AP fighting defensively = AC 24.
- Tripped, critted for 24 dam, second NFD hits = unconscious
- Aura attacks (Pally gets -5 unconscious penalty to defenses) = death
- Cleric is tripped, wasted + aura = killed
- Warlock etc...
- Wizard manages to land killing scorching burst against odds (NFD have good ref def) to save the day.
Level 2 xp is awarded...
Basically, the NFD is almost a deal breaker for 4E for me. I still cannot believe this lvl 2 soldier was given hill giant damage, it's basically ruined a session and threatens to poison the campaign. I mean, what other dark, smelly, seriously unfun/unfair things are we going to unearth?
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Regen can be shut off temporarily with radiant damage. I would be wary of putting a wraith against a party that doesn't have a str-pal or laser cleric or a starlock.
Regen can be shut off temporarily with radiant damage. I would be wary of putting a wraith against a party that doesn't have a str-pal or laser cleric or a starlock.
I think cha pals do radiant too, but agreed.
On the same vein, I think the Mad Wraith is very, very nasty. Everyone within aura 3 are dazed unless it takes radiant damage.
Rage (?) Drakes, level 2 critters that do +5 damage when there are two or more of them.
If the terrain isn't too cluttered and/or they start close (so the PCs can't just ventilate them) they do terrible, terrible damage.
I've used them twice. First time they killd two PCs. Killed! In 4e, it's easy to knock a PC out but not easy to kill them. They didn't chew on the unconscious PCs either, they outright killed them. (We lost both the warlord and the cleric that battle. Ow.)
Second time the terrain was much nicer for the PCs. The passageways were too narrow for the drakes to gang up on the PCs, and so the darkes were ventilated by arrows.
Our party got clobbered a couple of weeks ago by an Ettin and a couple of ogre minions. His AC was so high that our primarily martial based party couldn't hit him. The DM had managed to nutralize our cleric, who could have taken him out with his reflex based attack powers. This was an important lesson for us going forward. Not only should a party ideally have a balance in terms of "roles," but also in terms of a) the types of powers your party has at its disposal in terms of the defenses they are opposed to (ie not just having all AC based powers, but also some reflex, fortitude and will), and b) this might best be achieved by having some variation of power sources within the party.
. I haven't seen a 4E conversion yet, but I imagine that's because no one wants to kill so many PCs.
~ fissionessence
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