About Reveille

[wedgeski]

Euch. There were alarm bells in my head from the start and the "he's saying the name of the Gods in his sleep" nonsense really blew it wide open. Joke or not, cry for help or not, what a crappy thing to do.

[vagabundo]

Wow. It is s a tough thing to read this morning. Still I am happy that he is not in a coma, but he seems to have some serious issues. I'm not going to really comment any more as I don't have any contact, but if he does need help I hope he finds it in RL.

Originally Posted by Jack99

I agree. But I see absolutely no evidence of any emotional harm coming from what he posted.

Several people have posted how it brought up their own painful experiences, they put their trust and time into good wishes for him and, now, to find out that it was a hoax is pretty harmful IMO.

Trust is a valuable resource and squandering it is a Bad thing...

[Herremann the Wise]

Originally Posted by S'mon

The guy seriously hurt a lot of people, and bringing him back would have the potential to seriously exacerbate that hurt.

This is a good point, although I'm also fairly sure despite the ban Rev may already be reading this thread.

Originally Posted by S'mon

I am not happy at these calls to un-ban him, I would ask those who have done so to think of others and not just their own feelings re Reveille.

As one person who thinks a permanent ban is unsuitable for Rev, I find the assumption that I'm thinking of only myself a little unjust. When it comes down to it, I'm a gentle soul with a high degree of empathy - in this case, not only for Rev, but also the many posters affected in this including myself. Anyway, just saying that I don't think I'm only only worrying about my own feelings in this regard.

Originally Posted by S'mon

Punishment is not easy. Sometimes it is necessary. It takes guts, more than the easy path of letting it slide - which unfortunately our society all too often advocates as being 'caring' or 'nonjudgemental'.

Again, just saying that just because I don't think punishment is the best option does not mean that I'm "letting it slide". Forgiving someone can be a hard thing to do too.

Originally Posted by S'mon

Being banned from a bulletin board is not the worst thing in the world. Respect this person as an individual and require him to take responsibility for his actions.

I hope he will be able to take responsibility for his actions in the future. In fact I just wish Rev all the best.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

[PoeticJustice]

This is a really fascinating incident--I don't think I've seen a board (or online community) respond to trolling like this.

What Rev did was wrong. I think he ought to be suspended, but not banned. Flamers and other assorted morons get suspended with due regularity around here, from what I can see. While the circumstances are different and baffling, procedurally I think this one is pretty simple.

[S'mon]

Originally Posted by Herremann the Wise

Again, just saying that just because I don't think punishment is the best option does not mean that I'm "letting it slide". Forgiving someone can be a hard thing to do too.

Punishment and forgiveness can go together, you know. It's a lot harder to forgive someone who has paid no price for their wrongdoing.

As others have indicated, I'm happy to forgive him but I don't want to see him around here again. He can go post on rpgnet.

[vic20]

Originally Posted by Wik

Now, I know I probably won't get an answer, but I'd love to hear the story of how this story broke.

Perhaps it had something to do with the IP-of-origin on his posts that were ostensibly from the hospital matching with prior non-hospital posts?

Just a speculation...

[S'mon]

Anyway, like I said my sympathies are with the moderators, who have to make a difficult decision and stick to it. They have made the right decision.

[Rechan]

I actually want to deviate a second and say how classy this is of Piratecat and the other mods at EnWorld, for taking this move, opening the floor, and enforcing the personal attack rules.

Good show, guys.

[Sammael]

I believe that mods pointed out in the first post that their decision to ban him is not up for public debate:

We have decided to ban Reveille, as this sort of behavior - this sort of lying - can not and should not be condoned. I apologize to the many people he's friends with and who have enjoyed his posts. If you wish to discuss this decision by the moderators, it's like any other moderator call at ENW: email me, don't discuss it on the boards themselves.

[S'mon]

Originally Posted by Sammael

I believe that mods pointed out in the first post that their decision to ban him is not up for public debate:

In fairness though PC also posted "We have a policy of never discussing moderator action. In this case, though, I'm going to make an exception because we'll need to talk about this. It's a community issue that affects many of us" - so I can see why people would wish to talk about it, argue the ban should be temporary, and why the mods haven't red-texted them yet for doing so.

Of course I strongly feel those calling for only a temporary suspension are wrong and badly misguided.

[CharlesRyan]

What a strange and sad tale.

I frankly didn't know Rev other than as a member of this community, so I have no claims of friendship. I was saddened by "Mandy's" story, and expressed support in the other thread, but that was the extend of the emotional effect on me. I can't claim to have been suspicious; I accepted what was said at face value.

This was an extraordinary act, and, I think, an expression of some extraordinary pain or confusion on Rev's part. (The only other obvious explanation is an act of malice, and that doesn't seem to fit with what people who know him say about Rev.) That frankly makes me just as sad as the original "illness."

I agree with the banning, as much to protect Rev from the reaction of his peers as to punish him. But I hope this is something both he and we can eventually move beyond. ENWorld, generally, is amazingly free of spite and ill will, and we would all hate to see that changed by an event like this.

[Olaf the Stout]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wilder

I never really believed this, and since I don't know Reveille from Rorschach it didn't really matter.

But consider this, if you really think this was harmless:

What happens, now, if something like this does occur to a well-known and well-liked EN World person? Those people who reached out and offered support, or even just cared (whether posting or not) ... will they be as quick to do so in the future? Will they do so at all?

Taking advantage of someone's sympathetic nature isn't just cruel to that person ... it's cruel to everyone in the future who might have genuinely benefited from that person's sympathetic nature.

I like a good harmless practical joke. Even if it was a joke, though, this one was neither "good" nor "harmless."

That's my thoughts precisely on the matter. If a serious medical condition happened to anyone else on EN World in the future most people will now be very suspicious initially. That's not fair to the person that actually has the serious medical condition, or the rest of EN World.

Olaf the Stout

[Thanee]

Hmm... did anyone actually ask him for his reasons?
Would be curious to know why he thought that would be a 'good idea'...

I highly doubt it was just meant as a 'harmless prank', though (neither would I suspect malicious intents).
Likely, there are more serious issues at hand.

Of course, maybe it's better to just let it rest.

EN-World surely was an important part in his life, and this part is now gone.

He brought that onto himself, of course.

Hopefully he will learn something positive through this.

Bye
Thanee

[Herremann the Wise]

Originally Posted by S'mon

Punishment and forgiveness can go together, you know.

True. However, my point was that both are not easy to do and both are more difficult than letting things slide. At this stage I prefer just to go with forgiveness. I can understand though why some would seek to punish as well.

By the way as others have expressed, thank you to the mods for their excellent work once again in dealing with this sensitive issue. EN World truly is a wonderful community of wonderful people.

Originally Posted by S'mon

It's a lot harder to forgive someone who has paid no price for their wrongdoing.

True.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

[Deuce Traveler]

I didn't put much thought into it at the time, but I also agree that there was something that felt 'off' about 'Mandy's' knowledge and information. So I'm glad I did not become emotionally invested, but I also agree that I probably should have expressed my concerns early on. Overall this is not a huge surprise, but it is a huge disappointment. I am glad that Reveille has been banned. Relationships are built on trust, and when trust is destroyed it makes impossible even on-line discussions.

[Olaf the Stout]

I too would like to thank the mods for the way they have handled this situation. Put me in the camp of not letting him back on EN World. I don't think this is the place he needs to be to get help, and he does need help.

At the same time, if he did come back I could see a lot of posters being angry with him (and rightly so). EN World could become a bit of a hostile place for a while as a result, with people either siding with or against Reveille. I really don't think that is something that EN World needs.

If you really want to contact him I'm sure the mods could give you his e-mail address.

Olaf the Stout

[Ginnel]

Ah well Rev, you've never expressed the inclination to do this kind of thing so it does seem kinda odd, you've got my support still, you need it.

[Relique du Madde]

He paid nothing for his wrongfulness is utter BS.

Many of you NEVER posted in the HIVE. You never had a thousand post long conversations with Rev so you can't imagine the amount of doubt and damage this can cause to anyone's relationship with him on ENWorld.

What Rev did casts doubt on EVERY fact he ever stated in the HIVE and in the Off Topic forum. Sadly those doubts will always linger since there is little or no concrete evidence for anything he said. As more and more HIVERs start reading and responding to these events we will only find ourselves questioning his actions more then many of those on this board will. He was one of our own. We thought we knew him. We thought we were all friends. We don't know what the hell lead up to those disastrous actions he took, nor if we could have stopped them. That's not even mentioning that some of us already feel embittered and betrayed by all of this.

So you claim he paid no price, well think again.

The price he paid was the loss of respect he received. He paid through his loss of credibility as well as his being outed and made into a pariah and potentially becoming labeled as the biggest (compulsive) lier this site has known. He tarnished himself and he will not come out unscathed or as anything but tainted.

The price he paid is greater then many of the people on this site will ever know since there are few posters in this community that can fall greater then he did without being a full admin or a game developer.

[nerfherder]

Originally Posted by Wik

we are not a treatment centre. We are a place for like-minded people to talk/rave/complain about Dungeons and Dragons (and other games).

Shutting our doors to him is not shutting him away from treatment, because we are not treament professionals - and we shouldn't be taking on that role. Shutting our doors to him is simply saying "what you did is not cool, and we don't want to talk to you about Dungeons and Dragons anymore".

Originally Posted by Olaf the Stout

If a serious medical condition happened to anyone else on EN World in the future most people will now be very suspicious initially. That's not fair to the person that actually has the serious medical condition, or the rest of EN World.

I agree with you both. A member of CM died recently, and it would have been awful if the first reaction was "Is this a hoax?"

[ruemere]

Disclaimer: I am not, nor I have been involved with Reveille in anyway. However, I have been working in moderator capacity from time to time and I have had to deal with intelligent, yet ruthless people manipulating others.

1. Accounts are cheap. Banning will not stop a determined troll from disturbing peace.

2. Premeditated and vile manipulation of other feelings is heinous offense. In my time I have dealt it by inflicting harshest punishment imaginable:
- total removal of all posts (continuity be damned) - it hurts people who have made a lot of posts to lose stuff they produced over the course of years
OR
- ban and permanent attachment of "Mark of Shame" to all posts (essentially, a signature saying something like (in bold red):
"User Reveille has been banned for abusing trust of EnWorld community.
- signed: <moderator>" - that solution preserve worthwhile content while warning other members

3. This is Internet. Over years, I have met several talented individuals who wormed their way into hearts of others or who changed for worse. Also, sometimes accounts are stolen and used for nefarious purposes.
Social engineering attacks are based on appealing to your goodwill - remember this whenever someone asks you for something. Just be careful.

Regards,
Ruemere