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I'm DMing a game coming up on Saturday afternoon that will involve a certain siege scenario with my players (I'm expecting a full house of 5-6), where they will be protecting an old ruin from a siege of enemies. I need some advice on how to ensure that I'm not totally overwhelming the players. I'm going to be setting up the enemies as mostly 1hp minions, with perhaps one or two regular monsters acting as leaders in a wave. I'll also be lowering the enemy defenses by 2 or 3 because of the sheer number they'll be up against (I'm imagining between 20-30). The players will be given combat advantage and superior cover with the embankments of the defensive wall (which ... will not help as much if/when the monsters break through). I'm also allowing them the use of their daily powers more than once by spending a healing surge.
But for the veterans out there who have done similar sieges, do you have any input on what else I can do?
I recently ran a massive siege as part of my campaign. One section of it had Our Heroes defending the walls, fighting wave after wave of minions with a bunch of minions of their own (peasants) at their side! As well as a bunch of archers and pikemen, of course. Ahem.
Anyway, I'd recommend not lowering the enemy defenses and not letting the pcs recharge dailies, myself; but give them short rests between waves of enemies. Pay attention to your xp budget, and build a (party level +1) level encounter with almost all minions. You'll probably have a leader and about 20 minions. Good stuff!
I'm going to be setting up the enemies as mostly 1hp minions, with perhaps one or two regular monsters acting as leaders in a wave. I'll also be lowering the enemy defenses by 2 or 3 because of the sheer number they'll be up against (I'm imagining between 20-30).
Have you determined several ways to break up the fight? My concern with creating a siege scenario in which you're throwing wave after wave of minions at the group would be boring the players. To that effect, I suggest you break up the siege with several distinct events, such as the arrival of war wizards, siege engines—maybe some type of burrowing creature emerging in their midst. Allow the PCs to take short rests, just not extended rests, the idea being that if two or three PCs can hold off the besiegers temporarily, then the others can briefly rest. Also, try to find a way to make sure each PC can feel like he or she is participating. With a siege scenario, you risk the non-ranged attackers getting bored, so have the enemy forces launch enemies behind the siege lines or drop them from above. Finally, you might consider having a few skill challenges to break up combat—maybe if the characters are driven back, you set up a challenge where they escape while rigging the ruins behind them to block and slow enemies.
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Originally Posted by wittyallusion
I'm also allowing them the use of their daily powers more than once by spending a healing surge.
I like the idea of giving them back daily powers in this scenario. Maybe allow them to regain one daily every milestone they reach (assuming you break up the siege into sub-encounters). I'm not sure if the extra healing surges will really be necessary, plus in a siege scenario, the attackers are really aiming to wear down defenders through attrition, so allowing all the characters to dwindle to 1 or 2 healing surges before a final encounter seems like a convincing way to bring desperation and danger to the encounter.
__________________ Greg Bilsland
Editor (and occasional Designer)
Wizards of the Coast LLC.
My pre-4e experience is that PCs defending a fortified locale can slaughter enormous numbers of weaker foes. I wouldn't mess with enemy stats or special PC-favouring rules on recharging dailies. Recharging encounter powers between waves sounds reasonable.
20-30 minions of PC level would be massacred in short order, IMO.
Edit: The one advantage mundane attackers may have is the ability to fire enormous numbers of arrows; if the PCs are on battlements this may be used to suppress them (force them to take cover) while the attackers scale the walls.
Great suggestions so far guys, thanks! Another consideration that just made itself apparent to me is combat turns. It seems like it would be simply unfeasible to have 35 initiatives going at the same time, with all the enemies moving individually rather than as a unit. Any tips on how to handle that?
What I'm thinking right now is, each group moves as a unit, but enemies that breach the defenses and come within range of the melee people go into an initiative order? That also seems a little too complicated >.>
What kind of fortification do these ruins provide that would turn the encounter into a siege? If these are ruins are there multiple entry points to watch? Does the party have the resources/supplies to withstand a siege of many days, weeks, or longer?
If its a single assault, even in waves it will be important to consider what if any opportunities the party has to get short rests and how often. The inability to regain encounter powers between waves will have an effect on what they can handle. A party reduced to at-wills after the first wave or two will get really gummed up and slowed down by more enemies. At that point large numbers get really dangerous even if they are minions if the party has little AOE capability left.
For initiative, I would use a group method no matter where they were. Its not worth the headache to track individual, especially with ongoing effects.
Well, technically you're describing 30+ enemies vs. 5-6 defenders, and I'm guessing it will occur within a day. It's not a siege, it's King of the Hill. Essentially it's a complex encounter template (to use 4e speak).
About your concerns regarding overwhelming the PCs, I think you don't have to worry. If you have 20 level 5 minions (50 XP), that's a normal 5th level encounter for 5 PCs right there - add a leader and a hazard and you've got a real challenge. After all, the PCs have terrain advantage with lots of cover and (i'm guessing) higher ground.
With PCs outnumbered 4 to 1, those are pretty standard fantasy adventure odds, and you can expect the PCs to hack through them, especially if they have AoE powers.
Some things to consider...
* Do the PCs have time to set up defenses? Allow them to change some of the cover around, establish arrow slits, barricade doors, boil lamp oil to throw on attackers, cast a ritual or two, or even create quick traps (see Madmartigan in Willow).
* Do the monsters need to get to them quickly? If not, there's all kind of things they can do: Starve the PCs out then attack while they are weak. Call for reinforcements or perform a ritual. Set demolition charges. Make circle of oil + flammables around ruins then shoot flaming arrows & smoke sticks into the ruins, smoking PCs out into the now burning circle around them thus pinning them down for archers. Create simple siege weapons like a mini-mantlet, hoist, or battering ram. Throw grappling hooks to a damaged wall with the ropes attached to a team of oxen and have them topple the wall. Create a tower shield wall around the battering ram. Trebuchet goblins over the wall... Just kidding.
.... trebucheting goblins over the wall doesn't actually seem like that bad an idea now. >.>
And yeah, Quickleaf's right, this does technically fall under "king of the hill" rather than "siege" but ... with 30 monsters crowding the players, I don't think they'll mind the distinction.
But anyway. Really great ideas for spicing up the challenge. I wasn't thinking at all about doing skill challenges, but that seems like it would be a really, really good idea to keep everyone occupied. Same goes for the siege weapons!
Hmm, I just had another thought. You could make some huge or gargantuan "swarms" of enemy troops. That might speed things up a bit by reducing the amount of dice rolling. The PCs would only have to roll against one or two enemies with their AoE attacks instead of 9 or 10. In an adaptation for Fortress of the Yuan-Ti, I created a Huge swarm of dretches by giving it some of the normal creature's characteristics with a few extra powers owing to its swarmyness. Creating units in this way would also allow you to create squadrons of enemies based on role. You'd have the skirmisher swarm that comes in to flank the PCs, you'd have the brute swarm be the shock troops, the soldier swarm behind the brutes, and then the artillery swarm in the back. Of course, you probably want to make sure that the PCs have enough AoE at-will and encounter powers so that it doesn't end up being a grind.
__________________ Greg Bilsland
Editor (and occasional Designer)
Wizards of the Coast LLC.
Just kidding. 
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