General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
XP is calculated on a per creature (trap/obstacle/whatever) basis; if you kill 4 orcs, you don't look up the EL to get XP, you look up the CR four times to get the XP. Thus, unless some of those dragons were super-duper epic badass, V gets no XP. Since the fiends knew about mama dragon, and what she was capable of, and their initial comment was "no XP", that implies that mama dragon wasn't dangerous enough for XP, so that means any familicide victims that gave XP would have to be way more powerful than the mama dragon. Which seems unlikely, unless Tiamat herself just croaked.
Was big bad (undead head) dragon's age category ever established? It seemed Gargantuan to me, so wyrm or great wyrm, which is CR20 or 22; plus at least 5 or 3 sorcerer levels on top, to get to caster level 18, to get soul bind. Whatever CR she ends up at, V's ECL is at least 8 higher than that.
__________________ - Bob Huss
[H]e's dead and poisoned and possibly insane on another plane. It's a very stylish death, but a definitive one. - Piratecat
Last edited by coyote6; 20th March 2009 at 06:49 PM..
Wouldn't it be awesome if the reign of dragon destruction continues into next strip... and we suddenly find out that someone very close to V has a little black dragon blood in his/her distant past?
V just needs to cast a wish ("I wish that any of the dragonspawn I just killed that wasn't evil and will not take revenge on me or my family for killing their family would be resurrected") and he's golden again.
Leaving aside the question of whether resurrecting a person makes up for killing them on a moral scale, V can't do that. One of the conditions of the Splice was no replication of Divine spells, even via Wish.
I can't seriously believe that some people are trying to say that this wasn't an evil act. Heck this thing bordered on Vile, if not jumping over it with rocket skates.
Yes, he killed a metric ton of Evil. So too do the fiends that take place in the Blood War. Each and every day, they kill dozens, if not more, of heinous Evil. Yet you don't seriously suggest that they are committing good and or neutral acts.
Intent matters in DnD. I can give far too many examples showing it does (starting with committing allegedly good acts to get into the good graces of people, just so you can kill them and take all their stuff). And if one wants to argue that it doesn't in their home games, fine. But it is clear that in Rich's world it does (see the Celestial Interview with Roy).
And this?
This was evil through and through.
==============
Anyway, on a more practical note, I'd just like to point out that the next (supposed) major destination of the OotS when they get back together is the Western Continent. And who happens to be one of the Gods that holds sway there?
Tiamat.
Who now has the potential to be a tad cranky right now...
Last edited by Buck Godot; 20th March 2009 at 07:08 PM..
I think it's pretty much evil all the way around. Killing off the dragon's whole family and making her watch certainly is evil. What is especially disturbing is V's lack of restraint now. If this was a good person fighting the dragon, he'd never consider vanquishing that dragon's family after she has died. For one thing, his family was saved by preventing the dragon from killing the family. Now, had V come and found the family already dead, perhaps the revenge against the dragon and the rest of her family might make a little more sense.
Still, good and evil also has to do with restraint. How far do you go with justice before it becomes overkill? I think even killing the dragon's fourth half-dragon/half-centaur (twice removed, I'm sure) is certainly overkill.
Also, "Suvie?" Yup, V's a girl, or a "witch" now, if you know what I mean.
Wouldn't it be awesome if the reign of dragon destruction continues into next strip... and we suddenly find out that someone very close to V has a little black dragon blood in his/her distant past?
Like maybe V's mate, and thus V's children?
I noticed a lot of Black Dragons with green eyes and/or wings.
On top of that, V. has purple hair and there were a lot of black dragons with purple eyes and/or wings, too.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WotC_ScottR
There will be no 4.5. It is 4th Edition.
Last edited by Xyxox; 20th March 2009 at 07:13 PM..
As I read through this strip I found myself recollecting the old Doctor Who (Tom Baker era) story arc, "Genesis of the Daleks". The Doctor is transported to Skaro as Davros is just creating the first of the Daleks, with the intended mission to stop him before he gets started. The Doctor actually reaches a point where he could destroy all the Daleks and end the threat right then and there.
But he stops himself and starts reflecting on the consequences. One of the things that he realized that is relevant to this thread is that while the Daleks were evil, not everything that resulted from their existence was evil. For example, many species that would otherwise have been hostile to each other ended up allying and fighting against the Daleks and becoming friends.
In the case of V commiting familicide, the larger consequences are unforeseeable for the world, but clearly V was acting in a purely selfish manner - family protection notwithstanding. With that much raw arcane power, V could simply have made all members of his/her family permanently imperceivable to the dragon's kin (e.g. - mind blank and superior invisibility and nondetection, etc.) instead of slaying all the kin. That's just one of what I'm sure are hundreds of options available to such a powerful arcane caster.
DEFINITELY looking forward to what happens next!
__________________ Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. Anything is possible.
"Let's look Death in the face and say, 'Whatever, man!'" - Hugo 'Hurley' Reyes
With that much raw arcane power, V could simply have made all members of his/her family permanently imperceivable to the dragon's kin (e.g. - mind blank and superior invisibility and nondetection, etc.) instead of slaying all the kin.
No good. The demonic trio stated that none of the magical effects cast during the soul splice would persist once it ended, save that creatures killed would remain dead. So no permanent spell effects. But killing any and all black dragons? That's kosher.
No good. The demonic trio stated that none of the magical effects cast during the soul splice would persist once it ended, save that creatures killed would remain dead. So no permanent spell effects. But killing any and all black dragons? That's kosher.
Yep, you're right, I'd forgotten that caveat. So what you'd need is something with an instantaneous duration, right? That way the effect would be "done" before the splice ends.
__________________ Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. Anything is possible.
"Let's look Death in the face and say, 'Whatever, man!'" - Hugo 'Hurley' Reyes
Epic spells take forever to develop. Most take forever to cast as well. Thusly, arcane power from evil sources will only have truly stupendously evil spells available.
Plus, this is dnd. V can just, after the splice is done, go get atonement cast by some random cleric and do some silly quest like save the universe from the snarl and call it neutral.
Well, other than bringing in Tiamat, which would be pretty crazy, there is always the option of bringing in a still living ancestor who is just too big and nasty even for the epic spell to take out. Though I kind of think that may be unlikely, because it would just be repeating the original scenario.
No, what would be better is if some of those black dragons V just killed were doing something useful or important that is now not being done, hehehe...
__________________ -Kaodi
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed.
-Iago, Shakespeare's Othello, Act III. Scene III. Lines 180-186.
Evil dragons can be redeemed. MM2: Crystal dragons raisng white dragons, and redeeming some of them. Dragon magazine- Neutral green dragon. Myth Drannor- Good Red/blue dragon hybrid.
Half-dragons- the sample Half-black dragon in MM is "Often Chaotic evil". Suggesting that half-dragons are, in fact, Often X alignment, not Always X.
And Evil dragons in D&D fiction and sourcebooks aren't always utterly destructive: The Minstrel Wyrm, in Dragons of Faerun- fairly friendly LE blue dragon. Mist, in Azure Bonds.
Thats one huge karmic backlash incoming.
Its imo pretty likely that Vs mate & children are in some way related to the dragon. Its just fitting.
And I disagree that he killed all black dragons. The original dragon was an ancient one who, during her lifetime could sire quite a few children who by now had children of their own etc.
So, we have V who is now utterly evil and probably soon a dead wife and children. After all I still think that each of the 3 limitations will play a role in this story (no XP gain, no divine spells, duration ends).
__________________ Everything about RPGs is subjective, so everything I say about them is I my opinion and not hard facts
Having a backstory is good. Using this backstory in game is better. And for that you need background skills.
4E, the game where you play HSMFOS
Heroic
Only good, or at least unaligned adventurers are supported and no monster you can fight is good aligned.
Super-
The PCs become masters in any skill automatically and it is impossible for them to be bad at a mundane task
Mutants
Compared to NPCs of the same strength, PCs poses a ungodly amount of HP and can withstand huge mountains of punishment. That or they can spontaneously regenerate wounds.
From Outer Space
Yet despite no matter how powerful the PCs become, they can never do anything special what the "natives" (=NPCs) can do like animating a skeleton.
Vaarzuvius saved the bunny!
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
