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They are getting rid of all their PDF's from all editions of D&D, not just 4E
People that already bought the electronic products will no longer have the ability to download a copy
Number 1 is just a strange decision. I'm not quite sure what the reasoning behind the super-short notice is. I think a lot of people would be more accepting of this decision if WotC had given even just a week's notice. That's enough time for people to work out if there are any other PDF's that they want to buy. It also give people a chance to make sure that they defintely have copies of PDF's they had purchased previously. Legally WotC probably didn't have to give any notice. But I think it would have made most people a bit more accepting of the decision if they had.
Number 2 is also a head scratcher for me. I can understand getting rid of the 4E PDF's. I was a bit surprised that they released the core rulebooks in PDF form in the first place. But why get rid of previous edition PDF's? I doubt that they would be cannibalising sales of 4E products. Sure they wouldn't be bringing in a huge income either but it keeps some goodwill with players of previous editions. To get rid of them doesn't really do anything other that get people offside, especially since it basically makes these products unavailable now.
Number 3 wouldn't be much of an issue for me if they had given even a week's notice. That would have given me enough time to go through my PDF's, make sure that I still had copies of all the WotC products that I had bought previously or download new copies if I didn't. I think I still have copies of all the products I bought. However I bought some PDF's several years ago. I've changed computers since then so some may have got lost along the way.
Olaf the Stout
__________________
Currently running my group through the Shackled City Adventure Path
Last edited by Olaf the Stout; 7th April 2009 at 07:00 AM..
They are getting rid of all their PDF's from all editions of D&D
People that already bought the electronic products will no longer have the ability to download a copy
Number 1 is just a strange decision. I'm not quite sure what the reasoning behind the super-short notice is. I think a lot of people would be more accepting of this decision if WotC had given even just a week's notice. That's enough time for people to work out if there are any other PDF's that they want to buy. It also give people a chance to make sure that they defintely have copies of PDF's they had purchased previously. Legally WotC probably didn't have to give any notice. But I think it would have made most people a bit more accepting of the decision if they had.
The best reason I can imagine is so that the pirates didn't get any notice either and so didn't download one final bunch of products... but it's still not a very good reason compared to the customer anger it has caused.
Hey all. I wanted to step in and shine a mote of light on the subject. First off, this cesation of PDF sales has absolutely nothing to do with the Internet Sales Policy. I know it's the 6th of April and I can definitely see how the two would appear linked, but the truth is, this is a completely seperate matter.
Unfortunately, due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to cease the sales of online PDFs. We are exploring other options for digitial distribution of our content and as soon as we have any more information I'll get it to you.
Attention, customers. Since we caught a few people passing around PDFs that we had sold them (thereby demonstrating the effectiveness of the PDF watermarking system) we have decided that you're all a bunch of crooks. Since you guys like piracy so much, we've decided to arrange it so that the only way you can get PDFs of our products is by pirating them. You win by getting free PDFs, and we win by losing money. Or something. See you on bittorrent!
__________________ Formerly known as Dr. Awkward
When you get to be a certain age, everything that is cool seems to be a lot of nonsensical, idiotic jibberish. The music that blares from the pimp rides makes no sense; it all sounds like a man with severe autism halfheartedly explaining human sexuality to a parrot, while in the background a dangerously unqualified Caribbean contractor rhythmically installs an automatic garage door opener. Bollocks.
--Jeffery Rowland
wigu.com
The D20 NPC Wiki needs YOU to post your characters! Try my non-asian, non-hocus-pocus martial artist class, the bruiser! While you're at it, also try my vitality/wound point system, intended to eliminate the "15 minute adventuring day." Number of posters so far added to my ignore list due to the enormity of their spelling and grammar: 6
The best reason I can imagine is so that the pirates didn't get any notice either and so didn't download one final bunch of products... but it's still not a very good reason compared to the customer anger it has caused.
Cheers!
I had figured that was probably the case. However it seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'm sure the pirates can still probably get pirated copies off of a Torrent somewhere. So all WotC have really achieved is stopping legitimate customers from having one last chance to snap up any PDF's they wanted.
Olaf the Stout
__________________
Currently running my group through the Shackled City Adventure Path
5. "Pull it down or we're going to sue you." "Can we afford to be sued by a major corporation? No? Okay, we're pulling it down."
That's not how the legal system works. Lawsuits aren't some magical thing that just happen and bankrupt people irrespective of the existence of something over which to sue.
You're all missing something important here. WOTC realized that with its actions in the past few years it managed to completely fracture and splinter the RPG community.
This is just part of WOTC's master plan to unify once again the entire RPG community. Every board I have been to tonight is unified in their outrage at WOTC, no matter what edition they play.
Well done WOTC!! What's phase 2 of the master plan I wonder?
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
You're all missing something important here. WOTC realized that with its actions in the past few years it managed to completely fracture and splinter the RPG community.
This is just part of WOTC's master plan to unify once again the entire RPG community. Every board I have been to tonight is unified in their outrage at WOTC, no matter what edition they play.
Well done WOTC!! What's phase 2 of the master plan I wonder?
The best reason I can imagine is so that the pirates didn't get any notice either and so didn't download one final bunch of products... but it's still not a very good reason compared to the customer anger it has caused.
Cheers!
Ummm what 'final bunch of products'? Everything is already out there, including stuff which has never been released on PDF.
Those of you who know how to visit pirate sites can let us know if the frequency of available new WotC titles declines on illicit file sharing sites from here on out.
For your reference:
Before WotC started releasing its own PDFs for sale, pirated copies of books showed up within about a month of release.
After WotC started releasing its own PDFs for sale, pirated copies of books showed up within about a month of release.
I predict that after today, pirate copies of future titles will show up within about a month of release. Those copies will not contain watermarks that can lead to prosecution of the people who pirated them.
I'd laugh about this, if it weren't so tragic for people who don't live in places where you can buy WotC books for anything like the North American price. I'm led to believe that a lot of ENWorlders around the world rely on PDFs just because they sell for relatively reasonable prices compared to hard copies.
__________________ Formerly known as Dr. Awkward
When you get to be a certain age, everything that is cool seems to be a lot of nonsensical, idiotic jibberish. The music that blares from the pimp rides makes no sense; it all sounds like a man with severe autism halfheartedly explaining human sexuality to a parrot, while in the background a dangerously unqualified Caribbean contractor rhythmically installs an automatic garage door opener. Bollocks.
--Jeffery Rowland
wigu.com
The D20 NPC Wiki needs YOU to post your characters! Try my non-asian, non-hocus-pocus martial artist class, the bruiser! While you're at it, also try my vitality/wound point system, intended to eliminate the "15 minute adventuring day." Number of posters so far added to my ignore list due to the enormity of their spelling and grammar: 6
The best reason I can imagine is so that the pirates didn't get any notice either and so didn't download one final bunch of products... but it's still not a very good reason compared to the customer anger it has caused.
Cheers!
Everything for 4e is already available (illegally) online. Even the starter set, the character sheets product, dungeon tiles, the DM screen, etc. Sure, the ones you can't buy are scans, but the point is that it's already out there.
Well, OK, I haven't seen the official PHB power cards anywhere (the ones in the character sheets thing are out there), but I don't think they were available for purchase as a PDF anyway
This is just part of WOTC's master plan to unify once again the entire RPG community. Every board I have been to tonight is unified in their outrage at WOTC, no matter what edition they play.
I stopped by RPG.net to check Jtlawyer's claim. The thread was just as long, but several times LESS vitriolic, FWIW.
It seems that regardless of whatever the hell WotC does, it is our ENworld community that loses.
__________________ ENworld OAF (Old-school Admirer of 4th edition)
Last edited by Filcher; 7th April 2009 at 07:19 AM..
Reason: Still drunk. You?
Yep, Green Ronin, Paizo, Goodman, Troll Lords, the people who do Savage Worlds, AGP, Fat Dragon, Fiery Dragon, and Malhavoc certainly know how valuable customer appreciation is to their future business.
*Sorry if I am forgetting any other good companies!
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
I stopped by RPG.net to check Jtlawyer's claim. The thread was just as long, but several times LESS vitriolic, FWIW.
It seems that regardless of whatever the hell WotC does, it is our ENworld community that loses.
Hahaha, are you still going on about your "WotC is TOTALLY JUSTIFIED in screwing over their fanbase" thing there?
Look, you're the only one claiming that WotC is completely in the right here. The only one. Shouldn't that be a hint?
Seriously, there's tons of people ON THIS THREAD that have defended every single other thing WotC has done. And even they are drawing teh line here.
Stop trying to claim that the greviences are because of some bizarro "OMG I MUST HATE WIZARDS" conspiracy. It's not only complete BS, but it cheapens and insults everyone around you.
Admin here. Stop. You're arguing AT someone instead of discussing their point, and that's a problem. This topic gets more interesting when people stop telling other people how they're supposed to behave, think or feel. ~ PCat
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Last edited by Piratecat; 7th April 2009 at 03:54 PM..
That's not how the legal system works. Lawsuits aren't some magical thing that just happen and bankrupt people irrespective of the existence of something over which to sue.
Well, yes and no.
They certainly could threaten to take them to court. And, that threat might be enough to cow the pdf distributors into obeying. Heck, the distributors could have threatened to sue over breach of contract and WOTC could have simply told them to go ahead with the knowledge that they could tie things up in court for years and the complainants would go bankrupt long before any settlement was reached.
I'm not saying that either scenario happened, but, it certainly could. It really depends on whether or not the distributors wanted to burn bridges with WOTC and go public.
All this aside, I'm usually a huge apologist for WOTC. I know that. However, even I'm baffled by this. This is just out and out stupid on the face.
As a questions, could this be part of a package of moves in the face of the court cases against the pirates? Could WOTC be collecting information, or perhaps building some sort of case against the pirates in this move. I'm not really sure how, but, could the two be linked?
As in, WOTC says they are going to sue X for piracy. They then pull all their pdf's as part of that suit saying that the piracy of X is the reason for the move and thus X should be responsible for the loss of revenue that they could have had from pdf's?
Hey, this is tinfoil hat time. I have no idea. I'm just wildly speculating. Is this possible?
__________________ Currently running: Sufficiently Advanced over Maptool. Soon to change. If you'd like to join in a short 3-8 session campaign for various systems, drop by our forums.
I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
Look, you're the only one claiming that WotC is completely in the right here. The only one. Shouldn't that be a hint?
Actually, also I think Wizards is completely, absolutely, 100% within their rights to cut PDF sales. Doesn't mean I think it was the wisest business decision, but as a company they're more than justified (of course if they broke a contract, that's another story, but I'm not getting into that).
Hahaha, are you still going on about your "WotC is TOTALLY JUSTIFIED in screwing over their fanbase" thing there?
Look, you're the only one claiming that WotC is completely in the right here. The only one. Shouldn't that be a hint?
Seriously, there's tons of people ON THIS THREAD that have defended every single other thing WotC has done. And even they are drawing teh line here.
Stop trying to claim that the greviences are because of some bizarro "OMG I MUST HATE WIZARDS" conspiracy. It's not only complete BS, but it cheapens and insults everyone around you.
P. Cirno, I think you've misunderstood my argument. I'm not disputing *you*, I'm disputing the conclusions you are positing. Two different things, that keep us friends in the end, while permitting intelligent dialog without resorting to full caps. It's not a popularity contest.
I maintain that, despite the backlash, Wizards was within its rights to stop selling their product.
I maintain that, despite the misdirected bile, the PDF middlemen were wrong to offer to sell something they didn't have control over (5 copies).
I maintain that everyone is angry at the wrong entity.
__________________ ENworld OAF (Old-school Admirer of 4th edition)
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