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Unfortunately, due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to cease the sales of online PDFs. We are exploring other options for digitial distribution of our content and as soon as we have any more information I'll get it to you.
Wow, you just discovered online piracy? Welcome to 1982, guys.
And you've decided that pissing off your customer base by retroactively changing the terms under which they purchased the products is a good idea?
And you've decided to remove the only legal ways to electronically purchase your products, thereby further encouraging the piracy you're trying to prevent?
And you're suggesting a DRM future for your digital products, in an era when every other media industry is moving away from DRM because they recognize it as having failed yet again?
And you're apparently unaware that every single product ever published by TSR or WotC is already available, meaning that for those extant products you're trying to shut the barn door after the horses have run away?
And even that's assuming that products won't be pirated through the simple expedience of a scanner, despite all evidence to the contrary.
I see three possibilities here:
(1) You're using piracy as a mask for pulling these licenses so that you can offer these materials through your own website.
(2) You've decided that having previous edition material commercially available in any form is "competing against yourself", so you're taking action to remove it from the market.
(3) I'm ignoring an admin's instructions about not attacking people, and will get suspended if it happens again.
Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater!
What's next, are you guys going to pull all Dungeon and Dragon Magazine .pdf's also? Because those are just as easy to distribute online as any .pdf's from RPGNow and Paizo.
"We are exploring other options for digitial distribution of our content..."
Do you honestly expect anyone here to believe we will EVER see .pdf's provided in a timely manner? If Ever? Do you honestly expect anyone here to believe WotC will ever make this a priority? Do you even have enough people left working there after all of the layoffs to be able to explore other options?
Before 4E was released we were promised .pdf's at a nominal fee if one bought a hard copy. WoTC wasn't able to pull that off, and instead sold 4E .pdf's at near full price (actually full price since buying all three core books in .pdf cost more than what I paid for the core book collection at 4E's release). How do you honestly expect us to believe your explorations will bear fruit?
And your complete screw-up of the PR on this - this is the last damn straw.
We, your customers, have put up with being belittled for wanting an Adventure Path synopsis for Scales of War. And then had to be content with the insulting scraps we were provided.
We, your customers, had to e-mail and post hundreds of complaints (in actuality probably more) in order to get separate art and maps provided for Dungeon and Dragon. Yes, they were eventually provided, but why did it have to be so begrudging - as if you were simply humoring us silly fans/customers?
We, your customers, are still waiting for the digital products that were promised to be online over 10 months ago (with some probably still as much as a year away).
We, your customers, are still angry about not having .pdf's available at a nominal fee AS PROMISED.
And now there are NO .pdf's - period!
We, your customers, are also left holding the bag for the loss of downloads that were purchased IN GOOD FAITH (whether part of a contract with WoTC or not, this reflects on you - how can you imagine it wouldn't?).
On top of it all, I don't even like 4E. However, I've supported WotC, because of the hobby I love, by spending at least $200 in the last 10 months (Core Books, DDI sub, Adventurers Vault, H1-H3, etc.).
Well not anymore! Apparently I need to be beat over the head a good five or six times by WotC before I realize that WoTC does not care about me or any other of their customers.
I am done with you, Wizards of the Coast.
I am canceling my DDI sub immediately, and will not be purchasing any of your products from here on out. I have more than enough books and meterials to last me two lifetimes. That didn't keep me from buying more, but I will no longer be buying from you. That money will now go towards an ENWorld Community Supporter acount (at least until you decide that ENWorld is competing with you also and shut this down).
My threshold has been reached. I do not wish WotC continued success. I do wish it a painful and messy death along the lines of TSR.
D&D will last forever. The OGL has ensured that. But I truly hope that WotC does not. And I truly hope that there are many more that feel the same. I hope that it foreshadows renewed interest in and success for OGL third party publishers (and other game systems), because if D&D is to survive it's up to them and us fans - especially as it seems obvious to me - WotC will, if they continue upon the path they are on, kill 4E and their company.
Goodbye and Good Riddance, Wizards of the Coast!
I don't normally quote a full post like this, but...
...hear, hear.
DDi subscription canceled. D&D4 books will be shelved (or boxed & crated down to the basement) with the rest of the 3.x material.
My wife and I are 40% of our gaming group, and we're going to talk to the rest about some Savage Worlds or the like.
Last edited by Wraith Form; 7th April 2009 at 03:53 AM..
"No sense otherwise?" Um... that's a bit much. Really, nobody speaking on this has enough data to claim they know what makes sense, and what doesn't.
Besides, "executive management decision" and "sense" rarely go together (and this isn't directed at WotC in particular but all businesses larger than "Mom & Pop"). Corporate decision making rarely follows what makes sense to customers down the stream.
Seeing this as evidence that 4e and DDI sales are low is cherry-picking evidence. Anything that agrees with the theory is clear evidence that the theory is right, and anything that disagrees is irrelevant or not conclusive.
Yeah, as a legitimate PDF customer, I'm really annoyed at this - even to the point of probably putting my money where my mouth is and canceling my DDI subscription. But to presume this as more evidence of some pet theory of 4e sales being lousy is really stretching things and just detracts from the legitimate gripes customers have.
I'm just one customer, but I'm glad that I still enjoy and play both 4e and 3.5. Maybe tomorrow I'll cancel DDI and add a Paizo subscription instead. It's nice to have those options and have the choice to still get cool products but not support businesses that are erratic and at times boneheaded in how they treat their customers.
WotC is shooting themselves in the foot, yet again. They've had PR problem after PR problem, and at this point I'm no longer surprised when they pull something like this.
This is retarded. Especially for killing sales of legacy product pdfs.
Well, at least the used book market will see some benefit, since rather than buying the pdf of any given 1e/2e/3e books I wanted to snag a copy of, I'll be trying to find a used, paper copy.
__________________ "I can just see the 4e adventure anthology "Tale from the Limited Staircase"." - Ken Marable
Not torrents specifically, but I did report some specific individuals and sites, yeah (as did several other ENWorlders, I'm sure). I'll be honest — I wish I hadn't done that now. The only change that I've seen as a result of my trying to do the next right thing in this instance has been the shuttering of the sole affordable, legal, point of access to old, out of print, TSR products.
Yeah... that's the most annoying thing for me. The fact that they wiped out the huge library for all the old TSR products. Somehow, I doubt that such stuff will be part of any future digital project WotC might be contemplating at the moment.
Of course, pirates will still be able to access that stuff, but honest buyers likely wont.
I found out about this because I had PHB2 and all three of the P-series in my RPGNow shopping cart (along with other products) and now they are gone. I am on the road right now, travelling, and I wanted to download my LEGITIMATE PDF PURCHASES to put on my laptop and read while I am on the road. And now I can't?
I have been a WOTC apologist for a while now, and this really ticks me off. When I buy PDFs, I buy PDFs in bulk. What that means is that when I am shopping, I fill my cart at RPGNow with WOTC and 3PP products over the course of a month. And then I buy in one fell swoop. This usually comes around the time the WOTC product is released each month.
You wanna help the 3PP? Well, this just hurt them.
The torrent sites will still get the books up, there will still be pirated copies out there, and you will force legitimate pruchasers of your PDFs to find another alternative.
I use the PDFs more than I use my print copies. I buy the print ones for the shelf and the game table 2x per month, I prepare my game with the PDFs 5x per week.
Your decision is eerily like stepping back into the fear-mongering and information control of the middle ages. Why can't someone like me buy a PDF of a WOTC book in 2009? This is a bonehead decision.
And now I can't go download copies of the PDF THAT I ALREADY OWN.
Bad move. Seriously bad move. I need a cookie.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
I do not understand some of the outrage expressed in this thread regarding the "retroactive" canceling of your agreement with RPGnow and various other sites.
Guys, if you had an agreement with a company to continually supply those PDFs, or allow multiple downloads, or save your files in case of a crash, or whatever, THAT COMPANY WAS NOT WOTC.
WOTC didn't retroactively change anything. Your agreement was never with WOTC. The company that breached your agreement is the company you had the agreement with, not WOTC. WOTC was just one of their suppliers. If you are pissed about retroactive cut offs of your agreement, your anger should be directed at the company you had the agreement with. They agreed to something with you (perpetual downloads) that they didn't have the ability to fulfill on, because apparently they never bought a guarantee of perpetual product supply from their supplier, or even a long-term notice clause in their contract of cancellation. The fault for that is with the PDF distribution companies like RPGNow, not WOTC. It's their entire business to supply PDFs, and it's them who are to blame if they failed the obtain necessary vendor agreements to do their job.
Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.
We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.
1. Retrain their secret gaming police into an elite ninja force. As everyone knows, ninjas and pirates are natural enemies.
2. Unleash them onto the world with instructions to seek out and destroy all pirates instead of stopping people from house-ruling their 4e games or playing previous editions.
As a side note, Piratecat may want to change his screen name to Ninjacat just to be safe.
It's like they have one person over there who makes sound, reasoned decisions concerning their marketing and business strategy, and then do the opposite of what he/she says.
Next up: White Wolf decides to copyright darkness.
I just wanted to drop by with a friendly note to collectors reminding everyone that many classic TSR PDFs are STILL AVAILABLE for legal purchase at Paizo.com and will be until Midnight tonight, Pacific Time (about 4 more hours).
After that they will be gone forever, so if you're looking for a legal way to fill out your collection of classic TSR PDFs, there's no time like the present...
--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC
PS: I strongly suggest grabbing a copy of the 1983 WORLD OF GREYHAWK boxed set as well as the 1990s follow-up FROM THE ASHES. Both are excellent PDFs, and who knows when you will next be able to pick them up legally and affordably?
PPS: Our servers are SLAMMED at the moment, so you may want to practice a few zen koans and cultivate patience as you wait for your order to be processed.
What I find most annoying about this is that the honest people are being punished, and it's not going to slow down the dishonest people one bit.
As someone who works in the video game industry (and, thus, is likely well aware of the state of DRM), I'd expect that you're already well-acquainted with that feeling.
End of the day, the pirates will get whatever they want, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Period. Any attempt to inconvenience the pirates is strictly an inconvenience to your customers.
I respectfully beg to differ. If WotC signed the same contract that I signed (which maybe they did or maybe they didn't - WotC is definitely the one to blame)
I find it hard to believe that both OBS (RPGNow/DriveThru) and Paizo both had their contracts to end at the same time.
Quote:
7. TERMINATION BY PUBLISHER. Publisher shall have the right to terminate this Agreement and the rights granted to OBS if OBS does not make timely payment of royalties, or if OBS violates any of its obligations under the terms of this contract. Termination shall be caused in any of the above cases or by reason of other breach or default by OBS, by Publisher giving thirty (30) days written notice of such breach to OBS. If such breach is not cured within thirty (30) days following receipt of such notice, this Agreement and all of OBS's rights hereunder shall cease and terminate and be of no further force or effect.
8. OBS'S WARRANTIES AND INDEMNIFICATION. OBS represents and warrants that it has the right to enter into this Agreement and that it has taken all appropriate steps to obtain such rights pursuant to its by-laws and articles of incorporation. OBS further represents and warrants that it will comply with all governmental laws, rules and regulations pertaining to it in connection with the creation, manufacture, marketing, distribution and sale of the Licensed Products, and all other transactions contemplated by this Agreement. At Publisher's request, OBS will use industry leading technology to
encrypt Products from unlawful copying, but cannot and does not represent or warrant that the third party software OBS utilizes cannot be decrypted
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwell
I do not understand some of the outrage expressed in this thread regarding the "retroactive" canceling of your agreement with RPGnow and various other sites.
Guys, if you had an agreement with a company to continually supply those PDFs, or allow multiple downloads, or save your files in case of a crash, or whatever, THAT COMPANY WAS NOT WOTC.
WOTC didn't retroactively change anything. Your agreement was never with WOTC. The company that breached your agreement is the company you had the agreement with, not WOTC. WOTC was just one of their suppliers. If you are pissed about retroactive cut offs of your agreement, your anger should be directed at the company you had the agreement with. They agreed to something with you (perpetual downloads) that they didn't have the ability to fulfill on, because apparently they never bought a guarantee of perpetual product supply from their supplier, or even a long-term notice clause in their contract of cancellation. The fault for that is with the PDF distribution companies like RPGNow, not WOTC. It's their entire business to supply PDFs, and it's them who are to blame if they failed the obtain necessary vendor agreements to do their job.
PPS: Our servers are SLAMMED at the moment, so you may want to practice a few zen koans and cultivate patience as you wait for your order to be processed.
Erik, I just waited five minutes even to pull up a product page. Is there any recourse for someone who buys a pdf and who simply isn't able to download it before the deadline?
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
Guys, if you had an agreement with a company to continually supply those PDFs, or allow multiple downloads, or save your files in case of a crash, or whatever, THAT COMPANY WAS NOT WOTC.
...blah blah blah...
It's their entire business to supply PDFs, and it's them who are to blame if they failed the obtain necessary vendor agreements to do their job.
You, sir, really need to read these posts a bit more thoroughly. A quick scan around here will show you that this most certainly was a decision by WotC.
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