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Erik, I just waited five minutes even to pull up a product page. Is there any recourse for someone who buys a pdf and who simply isn't able to download it before the deadline?
Might want to grab these while you can and while waiting for the Paizo servers to thin out a bit -
I've got a large collection of classic TSR stuff in PDF, many of which were purchased on the spur-of-the-moment for research while writing 3E and 4E stuff.
I think, by now, everyone knows that I'm a huge fan of 4E, as both a writer and a gamer. I've rarely been critical of WotC's decisions; a few details here and there, but rarely on any given subject across the board.
But this is just the wrong reaction, pure and simple. As others have said, it's not going to deter piracy, but it's definitely removing a lot of options from legitimate customers.
My hope is that WotC will decide to sell these themselves, rather than keeping them off the market entirely. But until/unless that happens, yeah, count my vote amongst those who are very disappointed.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
Pretty stupid decision. If the person making this decision is also responsible for the DDI they should have been fired a long time ago. Hopefully they'll lose their job soon.
__________________ "Jello monster" is a pretty strong flavour concept
- rounser
End of the day, the pirates will get whatever they want, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Period. Any attempt to inconvenience the pirates is strictly an inconvenience to your customers.
Hear here.
It just seems so arbitrary and capricious. Even if this is the first steps to WotC establishing their own on-line store the perceptions created in the community by such a grand, blundering maneuver can only alienate people. Nobody likes to be punished for something they didn't do. In this day of e-com piracy is a reality. Find some way to deal with it that doesn't screw the people who have been loyal.
__________________ After the battle is over
And the sands drunken the blood
All what there remains
Is the bitterness of delusion
The immortality of the gods
Sits at their side
As they leave the walls behind
To reach the jewels gleam
OK, can someone please explain to me how pulling all PDFs of previous editions helps WOTC 4E sales?
I'd love to own a piece of Paizo right about now...
This seems like another way to help strengthen Paizo position in the market. Wow, WOTC must actually be run by monkeys. I keep asking myself, what are they going to do next to upset their customer base?
Pretty stupid decision. If the person making this decision is also responsible for the DDI they should have been fired a long time ago. Hopefully they'll lose their job soon.
This isn't fair. DDI has been awesome, and it's far more than paid for itself already. The DDI is the one thing good that WOTC has going for them in the digital arena.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
I've got four in my cart and wanted to grab six more but for the last 20 minutes or so the pages are just coming up blank.
I don't think I'll be able to get any more.
As soon as i saw
paizo was getting shut down i went and grab 8 or so of the pdf's that i've ben waiting for the extra cash to pick up. I wouild have got more but i really could afford more right now(not that i really should have got what i did.) Anyway, i'm glad i didn't wait because now it sounds like some people might buy stuff and not be able to get it downloaded by the time the deadline hits, and seems unlikely to me that WOTC will be cool and make allowances for these technical issues.
This isn't fair. DDI has been awesome, and it's far more than paid for itself already. The DDI is the one thing good that WOTC has going for them in the digital arena.
That is so true! The character builder is worth the subscription on its own. If there is another game system out there which has something on par to the CB and I can still get PDFs and books, please tell 'cos my loyalty to 4E has been badly damaged by this fiasco.
Seeing this as evidence that 4e and DDI sales are low is cherry-picking evidence. Anything that agrees with the theory is clear evidence that the theory is right, and anything that disagrees is irrelevant or not conclusive.
I agree. In an anger management session at work (that was part of the standard "classes" rotated through every year), one of the things they point out is to never try to be a mind reader. When you say "they were doing this because" you are just setting yourself up to have anger issues, often when you were incorrect in your assessment.
Quote:
Yeah, as a legitimate PDF customer, I'm really annoyed at this - even to the point of probably putting my money where my mouth is and canceling my DDI subscription.
I have to admit, I hope that because of this a boycott is organized and initially costs WotC sales. They have clearly been making a lot of decisions lately that seem to be coming from those with no interaction with the customers. If one of these decisions clearly leads them to a noticeable loss of sales, maybe the customers (especially online customers) will be considered more when WotC makes such decisions, and how doing such things affects their decision.
Now, I have purchased a number of the older D&D products. The new D&D products weren't on my radar (at least at the price points they choose). So, this effects me very little. However, this has degraded WotC significantly in my view.
I will probably not stop buying D&D products right now. However, I am definitely going to reduce the products I buy from WotC. None of the non-D&D products I would normally buy or consider will be purchased (that's at least a couple of hundred dollars in purchases in the last year). The ones I would consider borderline decisions are likely gone as well. For example, the DMG2 was a likely buy, now I am going to wait and not buy it unless the reviews say it's something I feel I should have for my D&D campaign.
Still, WotC probably won't "get it" unless there is an active boycott. By that I mean a large enough group of people stop buying products, and show up at their regular game stores (those who still have them) and let them know they have stopped buying WotC products (all or a subset) because of this decision. I don't even know of those who this effects are even a large enough group for WotC to consider it (clearly the sales of these products weren't enough for WotC to be concerned with losing them).
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
I just wanted to drop by with a friendly note to collectors reminding everyone that many classic TSR PDFs are STILL AVAILABLE for legal purchase at Paizo.com and will be until Midnight tonight, Pacific Time (about 4 more hours).
After that they will be gone forever, so if you're looking for a legal way to fill out your collection of classic TSR PDFs, there's no time like the present...
--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC
PS: I strongly suggest grabbing a copy of the 1983 WORLD OF GREYHAWK boxed set as well as the 1990s follow-up FROM THE ASHES. Both are excellent PDFs, and who knows when you will next be able to pick them up legally and affordably?
PPS: Our servers are SLAMMED at the moment, so you may want to practice a few zen koans and cultivate patience as you wait for your order to be processed.
My only hope in this whole debacle is that Paizo makes trillions of dollars tonight in .pdf sales and is able to buy all D&D material rights and licenses from WOTC and we never have to deal with a Hasbro big corporate BS again. Imagine that? Dungeons and Dragons under a company run by gamers again?
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
The most insane thing about this, is that for this to have gone through, multiple people would have had to fully read this and then say "You know, I don't see how this is a bad idea. Put it through."
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
I don't play 4e, so the only business I really had left with WotC was buying a couple of downloads of legacy pdf products each month. It was a nice way to get to see things that were out of print or hard to get.
Now, I have no reason left to deal with WotC. They've lost both my custom and my faith. They could put their pdfs back up for sale tomorrow, and I wouldn't bite. If they're willing to yank the rug out with no-notice, insulting, utter horsecrap like this, what's to keep them from doing it again?
These are paying customers you've done this to. Not the ones who went and downloaded something off of a torrent--these were the people who wanted to properly pay for a product. And without so much as a warning, you cut off their access to their own purchases. I'm sure that will really make a difference in combating piracy, right? Giving us a week or 10 days to make arrangements vs. abruptly yanking our downloads?
I'm finished with WotC. They may not miss my piddling little remaining purchases that much, but they won't ever see another dime from me. I still cannot fathom how a company that only 2 years ago was fairly well-regarded in terms of customer relations could plummet so far, so fast, ending up an example for Paizo and every other would-be competitor of what not to do. We're quits.
__________________ RPG Blog II : A blog about RPGs in general. TheRPGSite: Speak your mind!
I hope Scott Rouse is somewhere with a big bottle of Jack. He's gonna need it. He must feel like the Secret Service guy who was tasked with removing political references from message posts.
(Edited by admin)
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
Erik, I just waited five minutes even to pull up a product page. Is there any recourse for someone who buys a pdf and who simply isn't able to download it before the deadline?
Good question. According to our WotC-approved statement on the page I linked to earlier, sales of the PDFs will end at Midnight, but you can download them until noon tomorrow.
I would strongly recommend patience, because after noon tomorrow they are gone. It sucks that the servers are getting slammed right now, but it was bound to happen. I am just pleased that we are able to keep selling these at all, even if only for a few more hours. It would have been really sad to see the whole back catalog disappear with no warning whatsoever.
There is no telling when/if these great PDFs are going to reappear, so I suggest getting while the getting is good (even if a bit slow).
These are paying customers you've done this to. Not the ones who went and downloaded something off of a torrent--these were the people who wanted to properly pay for a product.
To be fair, from the comments it seems the straw that broke the camels back was the people who "properly paid for the product" and then put it up in some sort of file sharing.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
I would strongly recommend patience, because after noon tomorrow they are gone. It sucks that the servers are getting slammed right now, but it was bound to happen. I am just pleased that we are able to keep selling these at all, even if only for a few more hours. It would have been really sad to see the whole back catalog disappear with no warning whatsoever.
There is no telling when/if these great PDFs are going to reappear, so I suggest getting while the getting is good (even if a bit slow).
I'm trying mightily, but I can't get the Proceed to Checkout click to work. I've tried three or four times now. I always get a store down or messageboards down message.
EDIT: The order finally went through. Thank you Paizo for the chance to grab a childhood (well, teenaged) memory on very short notice.
__________________ The purpose if good rules is to remove the necessity of GM fiat as much as is humanly possible.
Rules are required for role-play for the same reason as they are required for combat: to replace the skills of the player with those of the character.
) Anyway, i'm glad i didn't wait because now it sounds like some people might buy stuff and not be able to get it downloaded by the time the deadline hits, and seems unlikely to me that WOTC will be cool and make allowances for these technical issues.
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