General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
I was reading this thread, and there are a lot of things there I've seen in many books on being a DM.
The mindset of: "It's OUR game" "Say Yes!" "Don't nerf the players." "You're there to make sure fun is happening", etc etc. Here you have a lot of facilitating player advice.
And I realized that there is nothing out there about being a good player. There's no advice on facilitating the DM, helping give the DM and other players what they want, etc. Nothing about the responsibilities of being a player.
So, what makes a good player, and how do you be one? What responsibilities do players have?
When your turn comes around, know what you want to do - and have a secondary plan in place in case that's not possible.
Don't have fun at the expense of the other players.
Try to make choices that make the other players have more fun.
Build a character you love, so that you enjoy yourself.
If you aren't enjoying yourself, talk to the DM instead of being frustrated.
Don't challenge rules calls mid-game unless they're crucial to survival.
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Fit in with the group. If everyone at the table are thespians, don't kill the blacksmith because he overcharged you for a sword. If no one else filled out the character background section, kill people and take their stuff. The odd man out is always wrong.
Know all the rules that you need, and be ready, willing, and able to help with rules calls as needed. Make that help impartial.
Don't fight your DM's adventure. If he's ready to go on tangents, feel free; if he's got a limited amount prepped, go with what he's got.
PS
__________________ You can clean up vomit, but data is always messy. - Storm's Law
I don't care if you light his face on fire and put it out with an anvil... - A. Taylor
Pay attention. Everything else keys off of that. Don't go lay on the couch when it isn't your turn in combat (yes, this happened to me) and when it is your turn you have to take 5 minutes to decide what to do.
Play a character you enjoy; don't try to round out the party. If you hate playing clerics, but the party needs one, that's the DM's problem not yours.
Be creative. Add flavor. Try something crazy. Give us a moment to remember. I'd rather see someone fail spectacularly than succeed blandly.
When your turn comes around, know what you want to do - and have a secondary plan in place in case that's not possible.
Don't have fun at the expense of the other players.
Try to make choices that make the other players have more fun.
Build a character you love, so that you enjoy yourself.
If you aren't enjoying yourself, talk to the DM instead of being frustrated.
Don't challenge rules calls mid-game unless they're crucial to survival.
All of this and I'll add....
Show up. On time. And if you can't, let the group know BEFORE game night if at all possible. Obviously, this isn't possible 100% of the time, but if it is possible it's just, y'know, courtesy and respect and all that.
The loner character who trusts absolutely nobody is great in a single-protagonist novel or movie. RPGs are not, generally, single-protagonist forms of storytelling. Your lone-wolf-don't-talk-to-me character is more of a PITA than anything.
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Disclaimer: I used some exaggeration from actual examples that came to mind. If anyone I play with sees this, it's not necessarily a comment on that particular situation, it's just the first thing I thought of that could've been changed around a bit to make a good example.
Above all else, roleplay! It doesn't even have to be fancy.
The following works mechanically: "OK, I'm using Twin Strike on orc #3... do a 23 and 17 hit his AC?" "One hits" "OK, I deal... ooh! 17 damage"
The following is much more fun and engaging for everyone involved: "I quickly fire two arrows at the orc... do a 23 and 17 hit orc #3's AC?" "One hits" "My arrow pierces through his armor, dealing... ooh! 17 damage"
Related to RPing, sitting around a table being yourself is one thing, actually playing out a realistic character is another. There's nothing wrong with playing a character similar to yourself, of course, but if you describe your character as the neurotic, paranoid type and in play you act as your typical laid-back self... why even describe the character that way?
Know your character. Related to that, don't argue with the someone when they mention you did something wrong rules-wise. Disagreeing is fine, but don't be a jackass. Saying "You sure? Well, show it to me in the book" is much nicer than "Screw you, don't tell me how my character works!".
Don't shut down other players' ideas. Even if it sounds stupid to you. Mocking each other playfully is one thing (which almost everyone does from time to time), but telling someone "WTF, that character concept is so dumb" is another.
Know when your turn is up. If you completely forget about it, have the courtesy to delay rather than hold everyone up.
Going along with what Grygmar said, I personally have no problems with someone picking a character to round out a party, so long as they'll have fun doing so. Don't play a Paladin if you loathe the class, but if your party needs a defender, and Paladins seem like they might be fun to play, go for it!
Don't ask to change characters too often. This ultimately depends on your group, but some people can get irritated when you're playing a different character every other session. Understandably, there'll be times when a new book comes out and you want to play something new, or there are a couple classes you'd really like to try but haven't had a chance to. It happens. I have no issues with working in a switch of characters if someone wants to switch, but don't ask to use a Half-Elf Bard for one session, an Elf Ranger for the next, a Drow Avenger for the third, etc.
Have the courtesy to ask your DM for permission on things. If you want to use the latest cool Dragon article, ask first! If you want to play a Monster Manual race, ASK! Don't just show up to the game expecting a yes (without a backup plan), even if you're almost positive the DM won't have a problem with it... it's a matter of courtesy.
Commit to the game. If you want to play but it really doesn't fit in your schedule at all, or if you can't be bothered to get out of bed half the time, you have to consider whether or not it's hurting the group. Generally though, people are more accepting of the former than the latter
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Originally Posted by Nightchilde-2
The loner character who trusts absolutely nobody is great in a single-protagonist novel or movie. RPGs are not, generally, single-protagonist forms of storytelling. Your lone-wolf-don't-talk-to-me character is more of a PITA than anything.
QFE x 1000. This I think I've run into more than anything else.
Remember that D&D is a co-op game. You can't win unless everyone wins. Don't expect to do everything yourself, but also make sure that you can do something to support the party. If there are three strikers in the group already, ask before you bring in another striker. If everyone is fine with it, that's great, but if they really need to broaden the roles they're covering, you should volunteer to help by choosing your class accordingly.
Don't undermine the other party members. Even if you're evil. Even if it's in character. Just don't do it. Disagreements are fine, but once the group decides how they're going to proceed, you fall in line and support the party. You don't ever backstab the paladin. You don't steal party treasure. You don't drop area-effect spells on other players without permission.
Get your crap in order. You need to know everything about your character sheet. You don't necessarily need to know anything that isn't on your character sheet, but you at least need to know how your attacks work, what your magic items do, and how to use your skills & feats. If you're slowing down the game because you don't understand how to use a particular feat, don't use it. Ask for the book, and look it up, and use it next round. If you forget something, don't sweat it. It's not a calculus exam. Just don't forget it next time.
Bathe.
Keep the off-topic conversation to a minimum. If you know your turn isn't going to come up for a while, read a game book. Don't drag other players away from the game with conversation. If you think it's taking a long time to finish a combat, it'll take longer if you distract the other players from it.
Do congratulate and cheer on the other players. If you cheer their successes and sympathize with their failures, it'll make it more fun for everyone, even when things aren't going as planned. Pepper your support with in-character comments when appropriate. It'll help you to see the party as something other than a statblock during the non-RP portions of the session, which will increase enjoyment all around.
Remember that the DM is not a machine. He can't provide a well-developed adventure on the fly if you go off and do something completely unexpected. Let him know what you plan to do in advance so he can prep for it. Your reward will be high-quality adventures that were crafted with thought, rather than half-baked ad-libbed ones. If he dangles a few plot hooks, choose the one you like best. If he's railroading you, put up with it at the time and talk about it outside of the session.
Also remember that the DM is not a mind-reader. If you don't like the way that things are going, make suggestions about what you want to see happen in the adventure. If you want to follow up on the sub-plot concerning your long-lost brother, put it on the table so that it can be worked in. If you're playing 4E, ask the DM if you can base a quest on it, and you can get rewarded for helping to drive the plot. There's nothing a good DM likes better than a player who does half the story-writing for him.
I could go on. There's so much that a player can do to improve the game for himself and for others.
__________________ Formerly known as Dr. Awkward
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Remember that the DM is not a machine. He can't provide a well-developed adventure on the fly if you go off and do something completely unexpected. Let him know what you plan to do in advance so he can prep for it. Your reward will be high-quality adventures that were crafted with thought, rather than half-baked ad-libbed ones. If he dangles a few plot hooks, choose the one you like best. If he's railroading you, put up with it at the time and talk about it outside of the session.
Also remember that the DM is not a mind-reader. If you don't like the way that things are going, make suggestions about what you want to see happen in the adventure. If you want to follow up on the sub-plot concerning your long-lost brother, put it on the table so that it can be worked in. If you're playing 4E, ask the DM if you can base a quest on it, and you can get rewarded for helping to drive the plot. There's nothing a good DM likes better than a player who does half the story-writing for him.
This, so much.
Following up on that second paragraph: You are partially responsible for your enjoyment of the game. The DM should be working to ensure you're enjoying yourself, but if you are not, make it known to him. He can't read your mind and know you are frustrated with something (be it a lack of something, or something the DM is doing). And if you do not make it known, he'll continue. The same goes with other players; if they're annoying you, address it. In a polite, constructive fashion.
Know the system. You don't have to be a master at it, but understand what doesn't work. That way you know your Wizard/Barbarian/Rogue is going to suck, and you choose to play it anyhow.
Which brings me to this:
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Fit in with the group. If everyone at the table are thespians, don't kill the blacksmith because he overcharged you for a sword. If no one else filled out the character background section, kill people and take their stuff. The odd man out is always wrong.
And if you are going to be the odd man out, acknowledge it up front, and try to work with the rest of the group. If you're playing D&D, and you want to be a pacifist "I run when combat starts" character - know that combat is going to be a large part of the group. Don't get upset when you're at least running away once per session. The DM should accommodate your character, but don't rock the boat because you knowingly chose to play a non-combatant in a combat-focused game.
Know your abilities and how they work. You can be completely oblivious to how the next guy's character works, but you shouldn't be unsure about the rules your character uses.
If you're going to play a "crazy" "prankster" "Chaotic" guy, be mindful of when you choose to be disruptive. If it would not harm the game, go ahead. Playing a prank or urinating on the blacksmith is fine. Doing it to the noble the party needs on their side, or the monster that the party is overly trying to avoid fighting, you're just being an ass. "Because my character would do it" is a cop-out, not an excuse for intentionally throwing a wrench into the game.
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Do whatever you do as a group. It's a team game. Splitting the party is a nightmare for a DM.
The same is true for party members. While the group is split, one half is sitting on their hands.
Have a backstory that has a few different plot hooks the DM can use at his leisure.
Don't be an orphan from a village that was razed, no I don't much care who did the razing.
QFE.
Honestly, a player who'll write up a solid backstory (without you bugging the crap out of them) that you can use to tie into your campaign is awesome It will also make things more fun for you, the player.
Honestly, a player who'll write up a solid backstory (without you bugging the crap out of them) that you can use to tie into your campaign is awesome It will also make things more fun for you, the player.
On the flip side, a player who makes a 10 page backstory and wants a big chunk of the spotlight, can be bad.
Remember that this is a *game* and that the primary goal is *to have fun*. Everything else - rules, realism, even playing your character "accurately" - comes second.
Focus on the game. If you want to play computer (or cellphone) games or talk about last night's TV shows, do so before or after the session. If the game isn't interesting to you, talk about it openly.
Don't argue with the DM during the game unless *absolutely* necessary. If you think that a ruling was unfair or otherwise problematic, talk about it *after* the session. Nitpicking during play is annoying. Whining is even worse.
Be curious and creative. Explore the game world; do unexpected things; ask interesting questions; use your spells/powers/skills/gear in interesting ways.
__________________ In space, everyone can hear you pump the 12-gauge.
- Korgoth about Classic Traveller
1. During negotiations, even if your PC isn't speaking, listen to what's happening.
2. Even if your PC is not present, unless the GM asks you to leave the table, pay attention to what's happening. Don't say "My PC isn't there, so I'm not going to listen" and force the other players to recount everything to you later, wasting valuable session time.
3. Pay attention in combat. Don't read a book! For God's sake! Know what's going on, what the other PCs are doing, and be ready to act immediately on your turn.
A willingness to take risks and seek out adventure.
Support the other PCs and players.
Gods, yes! All of these, in abundance, thanks.
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For high crunch games, maths skill helps, but I see the necessity of that as more a failing of the system than of the player.
Hm. I see what you mean, but, to my mind, point #3 of yours, above, can pretty effectively counteract that issue. Especially if the DM is likewise supportive, helpful and basically 'on side'. As well as 'on the ball', for that matter.
be involved in the descriptions ... even at your pc's detriment! ... like knowing your pc sucks, but playing it out anyway.
DM'ing is tough enough, when players decide to help (not take over) describe scene's or get involved in details (weather, light source) it helps a lot.
been reading darth's and droids and having someone who verbally describe a setting is sooo helpful.
Here's an idea for the stellar player.
A player of mine started doing bringing a box to the game. This was great because we play on smallish tables that are always filled with minis and junk, so where to roll the dice so it won't be lost or cocked? In the box! The box is great because it also has all your cards, dice, mini, sheet, etc all right there! The player of mine went an extra mile and had a box with fold out legs that became a small table, but that's over the top. Backgammon boards work great.
In short, I encourage players to be extra awesome by bringing their own Player Box to the game. I made one for myself and its great because your character and all the campaign handouts etc can all live in one place.
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