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Any new system I adopt will need to be significantly simpler than 3.5e. In particular it must have fast combat, and PCs must be easy to generate and 'maintain' for my less math-inclined players; eg no having to choose skill point allocation every level for every class, or having to make optimised feat choices not to suck.
I haven't heard any indication that Pathfinder does this, it seems very much a number-cruncher's game in the 3e mould.
I'm writing stuff for the first times in years, based on how easy Trailblazer is making things.
Works for vanilla 3.5E as well as Pathfinder.
I'm stoked for the release of both, but am likely to work mainly with Trailblazer to begin with.
Seriously. I'm a big Paizo fan and I'm excited about the release of the final ruleset, but since Wulf gave us that preview of Trailblazer I'm actually more excited about THAT than I am Pathfinder. I plan on using some of the stuff in Trailblazer to tweak my Pathfinder game. Rules Kit-bashing AWESOMENESS.
__________________ I'm thinking you're totally out to lunch on this one. Find another form of foreplay that doesn't involve 3 hours of explanation and a pocket calculator.
Any new system I adopt will need to be significantly simpler than 3.5e. In particular it must have fast combat, and PCs must be easy to generate and 'maintain' for my less math-inclined players; eg no having to choose skill point allocation every level for every class, or having to make optimised feat choices not to suck.
I haven't heard any indication that Pathfinder does this, it seems very much a number-cruncher's game in the 3e mould.
I'm with you on this. I hope Pathfinder is a success for Paizo and players who really like the 3E style of game but there is too much complexity for D&D style gaming for me. I can get my complexity/simulationist fix from GURPS. For D&D style exploration/quick combat games I am developing my own version (everyone's a game designer these days) and looking forward to trying WFRP 2E very soon.
It is worth noting that the Trailblazer preview is still available as a free download.
While I may not agree with Wulf's arguments on some matters I found them to be at least worth consideration. Other ideas are being used enthusiastically. (Pretty much everything except the ten minute adventuring day article has been absorbed - Three out of four, a better ratio than most.)
I have been using his encounter budgeting since he first described it on these boards. It does seem to work more smoothly than the standard CR system.
The Auld Grump
__________________ Oh, I am a cook, and a captain bold, and the mate of the Nancy brig,
The midship mite,
And the Bo'sun tight,
And the crew of the captain's gig...
Back when the Beta came out, we tried two campaigns, one from levels 1-3, and one from levels 6-10. I didn't run either game, but I played in both. What my group saw firmly set us against using Pathfinder for our fantasy gaming. We found all the issues of 3.5 were still present, just magnified in intensity. Casters still dominated over all other characters, the mathematical progression and scaling of the system was still broken, items were still the core of a character, PCs were orders of magnitide more powerful than a standard equal level monster, prepping a session was still a chore, and the focus of the system is on system mastery and tweaking out a character. All of these things were reasons we left 3.5, and Pathfinder cranked them all up to the X-treme of 58 on the dial (at least in our experience). In addition, the art for Pathfinder really rubs me the wrong way (its a weird combination of anime, comic book, and WOW-like art that completely pulls me out of the game and makes me cringe at its awfulness).
This pretty much sums up what I thought when reading it (I never played it, and I liked 3.5 and didn't see anything wrong with it until I started lurking on forums and reading how overpowered casters were).
I find 4E to be the system that, IMO, really captures what D&D should have been all along. I don't agree with everything that it has (for instance, I think you get far too little uses of your encounter/daily powers because WotC erred on the side of caution too much), nor do I agree with all of WotC's decisions, but 4E is D&D to me.
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Pathfinder Just Keeps Looking Better...am I right?
Don't know. I looked at it last year and it seems all the classes have become more powerful than 3.5. I had enough of 3.5 power creep. C&C looks pretty
good though.
__________________ Being a DM does not require that you check your brain at the door. Much to the chagrin of munchkins & powergamers.
Last edited by Kask; 12th April 2009 at 03:40 PM..
It is worth noting that the Trailblazer preview is still available as a free download.
While I may not agree with Wulf's arguments on some matters I found them to be at least worth consideration. Other ideas are being used enthusiastically. (Pretty much everything except the ten minute adventuring day article has been absorbed - Three out of four, a better ratio than most.)
Nice thing about the 10 Minute Rest is that you can define it however you want.
Standard = 1 day. (RAW)
Change it to 8 hours, 1 hour, 10 minutes, 1 "scene" or whatever you desire.
It should be noted that one of the class balancing mechanisms is the AP cost for spellcasters to regain certain spells at a "faster than normal" rate.
So, although we are definitely kickin' the melee classes up a notch, they won't feel quite as empowered without the corresponding "scale back" that the Rest mechanic gives to the spellcasters.
Don't know. I looked at it last year and it seems all the classes have become more powerful that 3.5. I had enough of 3.5 power creep. C&C looks pretty
good though.
That's fair enough, of course. To each their own. But, and I don't know whether you realised this or not - evidently, I suppose - the Pathfinder RPG classes can be more readily used with many or all of those more powerful classes that came later, because they are themselves a bit more powerful. Some of it's just rebalancing, as well.
Time will tell, as with any system, but it's very promising, not least because it's the biggest open TTRPG playtest, ever. The benefits of that might just pay off. We'll see.
I had high hopes for Pathfinder but, so far, it is WAY too complicated... basically, it's a ramped up version of 3.5. The changes I've seen haven't adequately addressed the woes of multiclassed casters, endless stacking rules or the headaches of high-level play. I've muddled through 3.X for the last 8-1/2 years and find the complexity of the game to be stifling to creativity and exciting gameplay.
C&C is a solid alternative, if you are comfortable tinkering with rules, and Trailblazer is looking pretty good to me too.
If it comes through on what it aims to offer, I'll definitely pick it up.
I find 4E to be the system that, IMO, really captures what D&D should have been all along.
For a moment I had to ponder what you meant.
Then the answer came to me like a bolt from the blue, like Athena sprang from Zeus' forehead, with clangor of cymbals and devastating chorus of the very Seventh Heaven's sound:
Dragonboobs.
O brave new game that has such things in't!
Verily, twas not D&D till rendered thus.
__________________ "They've taken all the fun out of slaying things and stealing treasure!" - Bolt
Copy, paste and redesign your way to your own ideal custom game with the Swords & Wizardry.doc file. Renovate the elf, build a rogue or thief, and make all your favourite rules and splat core.
Then the answer came to me like a bolt from the blue, like Athena sprang from Zeus' forehead, with clangor of cymbals and devastating chorus of the very Seventh Heaven's sound:
Dragonboobs.
O brave new game that has such things in't!
Verily, twas not D&D till rendered thus.
You win the thread, sir. Hilarious.
__________________
LONG LIVE 4E
Known as ObiWayneKenobi (formerly WayneTheGame) on the Wizards forums.
This is the internet, not kindergarten. If you can't deal with what people say, get off the playground.
Nice thing about the 10 Minute Rest is that you can define it however you want.
Standard = 1 day. (RAW)
Change it to 8 hours, 1 hour, 10 minutes, 1 "scene" or whatever you desire.
It should be noted that one of the class balancing mechanisms is the AP cost for spellcasters to regain certain spells at a "faster than normal" rate.
So, although we are definitely kickin' the melee classes up a notch, they won't feel quite as empowered without the corresponding "scale back" that the Rest mechanic gives to the spellcasters.
I am kind of embarassed to say I haven't heard of Trailblazer before this thread, and I have a lot of Bad Axe products. After looking at the free download, I'm fired up for the final product. When will this be available, do you think? By Gen Con?
Trailblazer is now available.
) and looking forward to trying WFRP 2E very soon.
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