General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
I'm thinking of getting into PDF dungeon tiles. Like the ones SkeletonKey makes.
What I'm wondering is what's the best way to print them off? Do you print with a higher end printer settings on photopaper, or do they look fine on copy paper? How many do you get out of an ink cartride?
Anyone recommend any particular PDFs or Publishers?
I must have been living in a cave, because this is the first time I have seen World Works or Fat Dragon.
Wow. It looks pretty hard to build that stuff.
I recently bought Fat Dragon's EZ Dungeons, and it's the first time I've done anything like that (paper modeling). It's not hard. It's expensive, as I don't have a color printer, and I have to get pages printed at Kinkos, etc., but no, not hard. Time consuming . . . and expensive. But not hard.
The hardest part is finding out which pages to print, as they don't include any kind of beginners' guide of what pages to use to build what; it's just assumed you can figure it out, I guess :-\
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The hardest part is finding out which pages to print, as they don't include any kind of beginners' guide of what pages to use to build what; it's just assumed you can figure it out, I guess :-
This is something that many of the WorldWorks sets do contain. It's really handy.
The hardest part is finding out which pages to print, as they don't include any kind of beginners' guide of what pages to use to build what; it's just assumed you can figure it out, I guess :-
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Actually, in the new Deluxe Edition there is a stand-alone guide with color layouts showing how to create a multitude of room designs.
I've been building and using the Fat Dragon EZ Dungeon tiles (3d) for about 2 months now.
I love them.
This is my first time making 3d cardstock terrain and I've found it to be pretty easy. All the pieces have guide lines for where to cut and where to score, and the rest is just folding and gluing.
If you have your own color printer, then it isn't that expensive either. Most of the pieces are shades of gray with some really subtle color that gives the "stones" some variance. The textures look great and I've been surprised at how long my color ink cartridge has lasted.
I originally just used the wall pieces with slimmed down based to stack on top of my official WotC Dungeon Tiles... but I'm considering doing what FTG suggests and mounting everything on foam core. I'm just trying to use everything I have at my disposal and am still trying to figure out the best way
My only complaint (which is not a complaint at all)... I want more dungeon dressing! I love the barrels, crates, and chests that come with the pack, but I could really use some more 3D terrain
Maybe Fat Dragon could work on some thematic item packs, so we could drop in some dressings into our existing dungeons to really change them up.
Maybe Fat Dragon could work on some thematic item packs, so we could drop in some dressings into our existing dungeons to really change them up.
I'd buy
LOL- this is exactly why we re-launched the E-Z Dungeons line last month. We have a bunch of small expansion packs like torture rooms, crypts, armories, etc. that you can use to customize the new Deluxe Edition however you want. We're taking the 'A la carte' approach to dungeon terrain with this new series. This also enables us to produce some product-specific expansions for our publishing partners that allow you to customize what you already own without re-inventing the wheel so to speak.
LOL- this is exactly why we re-launched the E-Z Dungeons line last month. We have a bunch of small expansion packs like torture rooms, crypts, armories, etc. that you can use to customize the new Deluxe Edition however you want. We're taking the 'A la carte' approach to dungeon terrain with this new series. This also enables us to produce some product-specific expansions for our publishing partners that allow you to customize what you already own without re-inventing the wheel so to speak.
Sounds great! I assume that these expansion packs haven't been released yet? I haven't found them on your website, so I'll keep checking back.
My biggest problem running any dungeon encounter (using 3d terrain or not) is to make the rooms feel alive. 4e puts such an emphasis on using terrain in encounter design, I've been trying more to make memorable encounters. I've got 3d walls now (and crates, and barrels, and rubble), but now I need to make the other stuff stand out. I'm glad you're working on it!
One suggestion: I'd like to see some 3d terrain features that focus on the types of terrain in the 4e DMG:
Difficult (you've already got rubble)
Blocking (you've got columns, maybe large furniture)
Challenging (idk... mud, slime, ice, skulls)
Hindering (pits, fire, water)
Obscured (3D fog boxes?)
Cover (more furniture, low walls, etc)
I think also "Sets" based upon different monster races would be great:
goblin, orc, gnoll - piles of skulls, demon idols, filthy bed sacks, rubbish piles
drow - spider statues, alters, arches, webs
dwarves - lots of runes, stone tables, etc
Eladrin/fey - lots of script, magic braziers, fountains
Even some different "wall hangings" would be great... just decorations you could fold over existing EZ walls.
For 2D, skeletonkleygames can't be beat for their sheer number and versatility of available tiles.
For 3D, I own both fatdragongames and worldworks stuff. I find the fatdragongames to be better looking, but others feel the other way.
For tiles, I recommend mounting them on foamcore for sure. Much easier to use that way.
The biggest issue with any 3D terrain is the height of the walls - sometimes it is hard to see minis behind stuff. You can play around with making the walls shorter, but it isn't easy.
One way around that is to print the walls on plain paper, and glue it to foamcore or other material, and have it the height you want. That does work. For my games, if it isn't obvious if the wall goes to the ceiling or not, I just tell the players.
0one games also has nice 2D tiles, and there are hundreds of free tiles on the web, if you look around.
I print my Skeleton Key games tiles on 110 lb card stock. When I cut the pages out I label the back of each one with the tile number from the index page of each set. I also print out each index page and have them in a book. This makes it easy to reference them. I dis start a project of cutting out the smaller images on the index pages and labeling them. That way I can do a mini layout of the map I want, then just grab the larger version of the tiles I used.
It's been about a year since I could afford to buy tiles, but I also seem to remember that SKG has a tile layout program you can get too.
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Actually, in the new Deluxe Edition there is a stand-alone guide with color layouts showing how to create a multitude of room designs.
Are you talking about the pages that have like "4x4 corner" next to "8x8 corner", etc., telling you which overall pieces you need to build different styles of room? Those are really handy, but that's not what I'm talking about.
I wanted something that told me exactly which pages to print, and what would come out of them. I assumed it was mostly self-explanatory, but after my first visit to Office Max, I found myself at home wondering how I was supposed to do anything with the wall pieces I had, not really matching the floor pieces from the same directory that seemed to suggest they went together. The floor pieces were too narrow to match any of those guides you were talking about.
I needed something to tell me "these floor pieces are for walls in the hallway, for walls of a room, you need these other floor pieces." Maybe I was just doing it wrong, but then again, a guide could have prevented that.
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__________________
Click above to see S7S's FREE Rune Soldier Heroic Tier Playtest
also check out Silent7Seven.com for information on The Lunar Scrolls,
and the Advanced Class line including "Druid — Favored Forms"
and "Sorcerer — Aberrant Blood"
There are a variety of walls in the Fat Dragon models. The straight runs are for corridors and the long walls of rooms. They just butt up to segments of floor to make hallways or rooms. (THere is a little extra room on the floors of the wall segments to make moving minis a little easier). The corner pieces are for turns in hallways or room corners. These are multiple-square units, and are highlighted in the how-to you mention (4x4 here, etc).
Some people leave the walls and corners, etc. as individual parts for maximum flexibility and others mount them permanently on larger bases to make set-piece rooms and the like. (So, for example, you could take a 4 inch wall segment and base it on the "normal" wall base which is 4 squares long to but against a hallway or room base; or you can just mount 2 on a large, say 8x8 square base; as an outer wall segment for one large room piece).
I've found the Fat Dragon models easy to build and quite imaginative. There is a great group on their forums who will help answer your questions, so stop over there. I've gotten several good ideas and fan modifications from there.
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Last edited by noffham; 12th April 2009 at 09:32 PM..
I needed something to tell me "these floor pieces are for walls in the hallway, for walls of a room, you need these other floor pieces." Maybe I was just doing it wrong, but then again, a guide could have prevented that.
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Sorry, misunderstood what you were asking for (a newborn and three hours sleep a night have me pretty foggy right now! )
We didn't consider that approach as the pieces are really intended to be mix-n-match, but I do see your point. It's a great idea and we'll definitely try and incorporate it into our future releases!
I have some of all three companies mentioned above, Fat Dragon Games, Skeleton Key and Worldworks and have been doing cardstock modeling for years. They all have their place at my table, I tend to play more miniature games with my stuff, so I use more of the FDG & WWG stuff. The FDG stuff is really easy to put together and inexpensive if you have your own printer. The WWG stuff is not any harder to put together, but I would not suggest it for first timers, not a knock, just an observation. My 13 year old son helps build alot of my terrain (slave labor is cheap) and he has no peoblems with the FDG stuff, but we are in the middle of The Maiden from WWG and he has had a few issues with it. I would definately recommend Fat Dragon Games to get you going, their price, quality and quantity of stuff you get can't be beat, after you get going you can make your own decisions as to which one suits you the best.
Hope that helps some.
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Hehe, those FDG tiles look pretty cool. If I ever have the money I will look into them.
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I use the Skeleton Key tiles a lot. I can make my dungeons and such over at the Tile Organizer at RPGObjects.com. (The site looks down now... great...)
But then I print out only what I need (I have most all his tilesets.) If I don't have cardstock available, I print on regular paper, cut it out and gluestick it to a 22" x 28" posterboard. I can make whole rooms and sections this way, and then cut the larger rooms into easily transported groups. Sometimes I only print out the encounter areas and also have the small printout from the Tile Organizer to show them the interim areas, hallways, etc.
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I have some of all three companies mentioned above, Fat Dragon Games, Skeleton Key and Worldworks and have been doing cardstock modeling for years. They all have their place at my table, I tend to play more miniature games with my stuff, so I use more of the FDG & WWG stuff. The FDG stuff is really easy to put together and inexpensive if you have your own printer. The WWG stuff is not any harder to put together, but I would not suggest it for first timers, not a knock, just an observation. My 13 year old son helps build alot of my terrain (slave labor is cheap) and he has no peoblems with the FDG stuff, but we are in the middle of The Maiden from WWG and he has had a few issues with it. I would definately recommend Fat Dragon Games to get you going, their price, quality and quantity of stuff you get can't be beat, after you get going you can make your own decisions as to which one suits you the best.
I definitely agree. I have some FDG and WWG stuff, and you pretty much nailed it. IF you are just starting out, definitely go with Fat Dragon Games. There stuff is clean, simple, and great. It's easy to figure out, easy to put together, looks great, and definitely adds alot.
The WWG stuff is pretty good. I think some of the texturing is better in some spots. I think their best stuff are there "set pieces", like the Thoumont's magic shop and the maiden. Really detailed and intricate. Looks real impressive when it's assembled, but not really versatile without alot of work "kitbashing" the stuff. Their "mix and match" utility sets are good, but I'd have to go with Fat Dragon for the most utility stuff.
To clarify, I'm currently using the WWG "Thoumont's Rare Tomes" magic shop as the "headquarters" for my party. However, they just entered a goblin controlled dungeons, and I'm using the FDG EZ-Dungeons for all the dungeon work. However, I prefer the WWG caves style for the cave sections. Then again, I also use the FDG Dragon Tiles: Taverns. So I'm all over the place.
So, typically, I find the Fat Dragon Games products to be overall simplier and easier, while still looking great. Also, price wise, they are less expensive. I mean, that trap pack, $3.60! I'm picking up that.
However, once you get into it a bit, you should check out World Works Games for some good "set pieces" and some alternate tiles and designs. Also, they are doing stuff for the upcoming Pathfinder adventure path, so if you are going to run that, check it out. I'm not doing Pathfinder (I'm a 4E man myself), but I'm probably going to pick it up since I think it looks like a nice "set piece" dungeon I can re-purpose.
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