WotC president Greg Leeds and I!!!

[Ysgarran]

I'll try to focus in on the core of my dissatisfaction with WotC.

I've always put the story first and the rules second. For me the rules have only been a set of guidelines, a loose framework if you will, in which the story can move forward with some consistency. The much stronger framework and one I'm less willing to bend is the story itself.

I've never had a problem in my campaigns dropping a rule-set and moving to a different set of rules. The characters have always been more than just a set of numbers and abilities. I could have done the same with moving from 3.5 to 4e. The friends, enemies, cities, culture, nations, towns, families, etc. of the characters would stay the same even if their abilities were completely re-written. If I could not convert the characters of the past, then a new generation of characters would take over. Heck, On a lark I've had the characters create versions of themselves using HeroQuest.

MHO is that WotC has done just the opposite with their whole approach to marketing 4e. They seem to have a one rule-set mindset which is antithetical to the way I've always approached D&D (or any RPG for that matter). My own guess is that I'm no longer the target demographic for this latest incarnation of D&D from WotC.

Ysgarran.

[Elton Robb]

I think they should produce 5e. but only after extensive marketing research on what the D&D player *is*, what they want, their current age, what they want out of 5th edition, and what would help them play D&D both on-line and at the table.

I do believe that marketing 4e as they have didn't garner any of the success they've hoped. I believe they should drop 4e and make Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition with the Dungeons and Dragons audience in mind. This isn't about restoring 3e, its about providing a game for people that play Dungeons and Dragons.

4e in my mind is failing. They jumped the shark by trying to mainstream D&D. D&D isn't a mainstreamable type of game. D&D always appealed to a certain hobbyist, and this type of nerd or geek is the one they should appeal too. The OGL is apart of that marketing, because people who play D&D create for D&D. And we want to share what we've created.

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I'm stunned! I thought for sure someone was yanking your chain, Brix.

Could you post the note you sent Hasbro so we can see what prompted Mr. Leeds to respond? I think we could all offer more constructive input if we see what caught Hasbro's and Greg Leed's attention enough to wish to speak directly to you and build from there.

[Wulf Ratbane]

Originally Posted by Sigma

Yeah, I'm sure they're totally unaware of the angry crowd that doesn't like 4e, and talking to one random member of that crowd will somehow convince them of its magnitude and importance.

It'll be a waste of time to open that can of worms and it won't change a single thing. Might as well use the opportunity to make a difference, not waste time beating the same dead horse.

I agree, grousing about 3e/4e is a complete waste of Mr. Leeds' time and of the opportunity given.

WotC could not possibly be more clear than they already have been that they are looking forward with 4e.

[Dannager]

Criticizing 4th Edition in a discussion you've been offered with Leeds is just about the worst idea I can imagine. WotC is not going to move away from 4th Edition, and is not going to provide active support for previous editions. You will be wasting your time - time that could be spent discussing things that may actually prove fruitful.

A good rule of thumb is: only bring up things that WotC could conceivably get behind. Anything else and you're just wasting your breath.

By the way, Brix, you've taken up the mantle of community representative on this particular occasion. There is responsibility that comes with that. If you take the opportunity offered to criticize 4th Edition, you will find many members of the community criticizing you for wasting the chance you were given.

[Wormwood]

* 4E

The products have been great and the game is a lot of fun. So stay on course---so far so good!

* Licence issues (OGL, GSL)

No complaints here, as WotC already supplies so many adventures and supplements that I have no desire to look elsewhere.

* Setting support

I've never liked design-by-committee, so please don;t allow your fanbase to dictate your design parameters. Generally I think you best serve your customers not by constantly serving up old ideas, but providing excellent new options that they never even knew they wanted.

* pdf policy

No complaints.

* Layoffs of fan favorite designers

Nobody likes layoffs. I have no doubt that he's facing tough decisions, so I won;t second guess them.

* Cancellation of print magazines

I use Dragon and Dungeon in their present formats more than I *ever* did when they were dead trees. Keep 'em coming.

* D&D Insider

Again, I'm a satisfied subscriber, but new tools and features are always welcome.

And yeah, I'd love to see *some* form of virtual tabletop in the future.

[Storm Raven]

Originally Posted by Brix

* 4E (WoW-like game not liked by many)

Waste of time to talk about this. i don't like 4e, but WotC isn't going to go back to 3e at this point.

Licence issues (OGL, GSL)

This is one issue that might make some inroads on the 3e/4e debate. The issue here is the "either one edition or the other" poison pill in the GSL. They could (in my opinion) bring back a lot of gamers by getting rid of this and allowing for companies to issue product lines that have both games represented. There will be gamers who will buy products in a single line and might buy from the newer edition as a result.

* Setting support (e.g. New Forgotten Realms alienating old fans)

Probably a waste of time here too. A vocal chunk of setting fans don't want changes to be made, and will complain about them no matter what.

* pdf policy

This should be reversed. The stated reason is as idiotic. All the policy does is cost them those sales they could have gotten in the .pdf market while doing nothing to halt, or even slow down, piracy.

* Layoffs of fan favorite designers

This is an issue that won't go away, and won't be changed. I'd skip it.

* Cancellation of print magazines

Give them an earful on this. By cancelling the print magazines, they lost one of their primary vehicles to hype 4e, and probably cost themselves a chunk of sales. They also lost a way to advertise newer products that isn't tied to their website.

* D&D Insider

Will never replace Dragon or Dungeon, and unless they are willing to pour massive amounts of development money into it, it won't ever be the clearinghouse for D&D they think it will.

[Qwillion]

Questions for Mr. Leeds

How do you plan to bring back in fans that the policies listed above have alienated?

* 4E (WoW-like game not liked by many)

WotC needs to release a masterpiece adventure product that balances roleplay, combat and puzzles. (Example Wrath of the River King from a 3PP that has achieved this already).


* Licence issues (OGL, GSL)
WotC need to unifiy and provide a stamp of approval on those 3PP products that are the best at supporting their product. This helps both WotC, 3PP, and fans by putting a spotlight on the cream of the crop, the same should be done for fansites.

Other licenses out there in the real world incorporate good 3PP products into their core products, you need to adopt the same attitude so that there is a unification of design.

* Setting support (e.g. New Forgotten Realms alienating old fans)
Please make sure that when you assign someone to work on a setting they actually like the setting and don't seek to rewrite it to suit their own personal tastes. There is a reason it is a setting that has remained in print longer than other settings.

* pdf policy
Why were older versions of non 4e products pulled? What was the ratio before that was not alarming? What is the ration of illegal downloads now that they have been pulled?

Your stance on the magazine vs. your print products is in conflict, might we suggest making dungeon and dragon magazine available for purchase via pdf outside of DDI,

Or a PDF only product line, perhaps "The Best 3PP products of the [insert time frame here] sales of this product would pay for the editor who has to read the submission, and perhaps a entry fee would help support this product as well. If your the industry leader, you need to take a lead roll in wading through the chaff to show me the diamonds in the rough.

*I will not address the rest my replies will be far too snarky, and I feel those ships have sailed and WotC missed the boat.

[nnms]

"Tell me about your history with D&D. What versions have you played? What was your favorite character?"

[Stoat]

Two topics to cover:

1) Consider bringing back pdf's from previous editions, especially 1E and 2E.

2) WotC seems to have done a poor job communicating with its fans about the pdf issue.

Be positive. Complain that you don't like 4E, and he'll write you off.

[Maggan]

I'd talk a bit about how many fans would like more dialogue with WotC.

I love how Scott Rouse engages with us here at EN World, but he seems like a lone PR vigilante, working with no support from HQ.

So more dialogue, more faces to relate to. D&D is a personal thing for many, and I think people want to attach faces and names to the game.

Also, I'd like WotC to look at the history of the game, and use much of the earlier non-game related IP as building blocks for the future of the game. There's no need to reinvent everything, just work with the wealth of information out there.

But at the same time, I like that WotC is trying out different ways of growing the game, trying out different directions. So another thing I would talk to Mr. Leeds about was that they shouldn't be afraid of trying out new things. Just as long as they are careful not to trample the old things.

/M

[Harr]

Hate to come off as a downer (although I seem to be doing that more and more lately) But is there anybody, really, who doubts how this phone call is actually going to go?

I mean, come on. Here's the call in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by Brix

* 4E (WoW-like game not liked by many)

"We are very happy with how 4th Edition is performing. We have reprinted the 4th Edition Player’s Handbook three times, and PH2 is headed back for it’s second printing already. Ultimately our goal is to keep the hobby industry strong, and our strategy for that is to continue to create great 4th Edition products that will entice our fans to keep playing D&D. In turn, that will grow the hobby industry."

Originally Posted by Brix

* Licence issues (OGL, GSL)

"The truth is that the world is changing quickly, and as a business we need to be flexible enough to adapt to that changing environment. We have and always will continue to find the best ways to be responsive to our community of fans and gamers. "

Originally Posted by Brix

* Setting support (e.g. New Forgotten Realms alienating old fans)

"The D&D brand is critical to Wizards of the Coast’s success, and decisions such as this are not entered into lightly. We are all very hands-on, and decisions are vetted through all levels of the organization. "

Originally Posted by Brix

* pdf policy

"The decision was made for both reasons. The piracy of our products was increasing at an alarming rate, and we felt that it could have a negative impact not only to Wizards of the Coast, but to the hobby industry as a whole. And yes, we can track it."

Originally Posted by Brix

* Layoffs of fan favorite designers

"The D&D brand is critical to Wizards of the Coast’s success, and decisions such as this are not entered into lightly. We are all very hands-on, and decisions are vetted through all levels of the organization. "

Originally Posted by Brix

* Cancellation of print magazines

"Electronic media will continue to play an even greater role in our D&D business as the months and years go on. Continuing to improve the D&D Insider experience for our customers and fans is one of our top priorities. "

Originally Posted by Brix

* D&D Insider

"Continuing to improve the D&D Insider experience for our customers and fans is one of our top priorities. "


Ta-da. Just saved you a phone call

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Firstly, I would like to thank WoTC for allowing 3rd party retailers to provide another chance for people to download previously purchased PDFs. I was very angry when I lost the ability to do so and this new opportunity is a good step on the part of WoTC towards regaining my business.

I own virtually every WoTC hardcover purchased for third edition. I have a lot of disposable income, I influence the purchases of many other people in my local gaming groups, and I was a very good customer for Wizards of the Coast once. I would like to be so again, but for that to happen some things need to change.

These are some things WoTC could do that I think would be good for Hasbro and the gaming community.

I would like for WoTC to bring back PDFs for out-of-print WoTC products. I grew up with a lot of these products and they have a great deal of sentimental value to me. While I could easily find these on the internet if I chose to, I would like the opportunity to pay Hasbro for my use of them, as I have done in the past. I don't understand why watermarked PDFs are now out of favor -- it seems to me that you were able to find the uploaders and sue them. This seems like a positive effect of selling PDFs, not a negative one. Please don't force me to choose between violating copyrights and being unable to conveniently read products I grew up with as a child.

On the larger subject of 4E, I understand why 4E D&D has changed the way it has, but many of those changes don't meet my needs as a gamer. I don't really want to start playing D&D in such a radically different fashion than I have done for the last 25 years. I would like for Wizards to produce a companion volume for 4E that details ways to run a game using 4E in a more traditional, 'old school' manner, and rules changes that make doing so easier.

Lastly, I would like for Wizards of the Coast to work on rebuilding its relationship with the OGL community. My sincere belief is that moving away from open gaming was a mistake on the part of Hasbro. I would like for Hasbro to find ways to make 4E more open to participation by 3rd party companies, so that I have a wider availability of product to purchase.

[Dumnbunny]

Welp, taking it on faith that this conversation is going to do some good:

"You have stated WotC is exploring options for digital distribution of it's content including older editions. Will you commit to including older editions in this new digital distribution format, providing your customers with an alternative to often prohibitively expensive (on non-existant) eBay purchases or ethically objectionable and illegal downloads?

"Will you commit to ensuring that whatever form this new digitial distrubution scheme takes will be portable across different operating systems? Or is locking out non-Windows users on the table?

"Will you commit to ensuring that whatever form this new digitial distrubution scheme takes does not require an active Internet connection to view? Requiring an active Internet connection locks out many uses of the digital product, such as playing at a friends house without a wireless router, a convention, game store or other venue with poor or non-existant wireless, even trying to get some campaign work done on the road at a hotel with an Internet connection too poor to even allow the simplest of web browsing."

[cperkins]

4th edition doesn't work for me because it represents a major shift in how D&d is marketed, and breaks from the years of tradition that I value.

In AD&D, 2nd Edition AD&D and 3.X, the 3 core books presented the complete rules for the game. Any other books were optional.

With 4th edition the core rules have been spread out over more and more books. That makes it seem like a money grab to me. At the same time, I will not subscribe to a product (the DDI) that follows an MMO model. Paizo's subscription model (for example) is far superior and, once your subscription ends, you are left with a physical product.

I am worried that your plans for older edition pdfs will be to pull them into the Digital Initiative. I'd like to have the option of downloading them rather than renting them.