4e / GSL 4E Creature Collection from Fiery Dragon

[Fiery_Dragon]

Hi Ranig,

Thanks for the feedback. That's very helpful, and we'll get on compiling and correcting.

Just wanted to address these points about Scarred Lands:

Originally Posted by ranig

* I would have prefered information on the races of the Scarred Lands, or more archetypes, or information on the Scarred Lands, instead of Appendix 2 and 2A. Furthermore, your book won't attract any new player (or GM) to the Scarred Lands: the world is nowhere described, even if its only 1 page, and a short description of the main gods and titans!

* So it's a really great work, I enjoyed reading it, but it might still be improved.

EDIT
* Some spider-like monsters indicate in their typical encounters dark elves. In Scarred Lands, dark elves does not have that special relation with spiders like in other typical fantasy campaign setting. I would suggest to rework those entries...

At this point, there aren't any other 4E Scarred Lands books to direct them to, so we're saving much of that stuff until we can release official Scarred Lands products (hopefully later this year). Our goal was similar to the initial release of Creature Collection - providing a monster book that could be used in anyone's campaign, with just enough hints about the Scarred Lands to keep people intrigued and wanting more. Hopefully, we've done that.

Again, thanks for your feedback - that's the stuff that helps us improve.

- JB

[Nebulous]

Originally Posted by Fiery_Dragon

Beyond that, please keep the ideas coming. What would you like to see? What would you put in Creature Collection 2?

- James

First, thanks for that update. I'm not very familiar with Scarred Lands but i like your 4e CC. I bought the 3e one as well. As for what i would put in, i like having more fluff and background and ecology details, and the first one here seems to cover that fairly well. I'd like to know if Encounter Groups are a necessary use of page space? Personally, it is part of the MM that i never use and i would just rather see that room given to more detail about a monster, or more monsters overall.

nebulous

[Zaukrie]

I like the enconter blocks, but I could live without them if I had to.

[Twowolves]

Well, here's my dilemma: I am a looong time Scarred Lands fan, still running a regular campaign there... for 3.5 ed. I and my group have zero interest in 4th ed. I would love to support the Scarred Lands in any incarnation, but anything with just rules is useless to us. A campaign setting with "canon" would be ok, we'd just have to toss out every 4th ed rule in it. If the 4th ed CC has nothing new other than 4th ed rules (obviously) and a dozen or so new pics, then the book is 99% useless to us, and so I can't justify the expenditure.

However, a campaign setting book with a majority of the material being rules-neutral, even if it did just consolidate and recap all of the scattered info from the 3.0/3.5 books would be worth the cash to me. Even better, a Scarred Lands counter collection or 3-D minis.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

[Kelon]

I bought the pdf. Perhaps I will start converting the amphora trilogy. But I don`t need much scarrd lands crunch. WotC gives me more crunch than I need. I want more fluff, a world map and some suggestion how to fit wizards material to scarn.
I realy like 4.0 and enjoy playing and the first time mastering D&D, but I wanted a supported campaing setting and perhaps some adventures with more story and intrigue than the most crawls have. By the way, anybody knows a good murder mystery adventure for fantasy?

[Piratecat]

I can't wait to grab this. I consistently love Fiery Dragon books.

James, what happened to your old account? Need a password reset?

[Fiery_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Piratecat

I can't wait to grab this. I consistently love Fiery Dragon books.

James, what happened to your old account? Need a password reset?

Oh, it's a long and complicated story. For some reason, when I hit the "Forgot My Password" button, I never get the e-mail from the site.

Then, I set up a new account a while back, using my work e-mail (which also allowed me to post from work...)

Of course, my working situation has changed, so I don't have access to that account anymore ('cause I never remember passwords).

I think I've got it licked this time, but when I screw this one up, I'll let you know.


TwoWolves - I'm kicking around some ideas, but most rely on 4E to really sell the product. There's so much great material available for 3E that I wouldn't know what to add in terms of being rules neutral that would add to the setting... and not be a false start. What about a big map of the Scarred Lands, similar to the one we did for Ptolus? Big, prestige vinyl wall art? Anyone?

- JB

[Kelon]

[What about a big map of the Scarred Lands, similar to the one we did for Ptolus? Big, prestige vinyl wall art? Anyone?

- JB[/quote]

If the shipping to Europe is payable, call me a customer.

[avin]

Originally Posted by Fiery_Dragon

Beyond that, please keep the ideas coming. What would you like to see? What would you put in Creature Collection 2?

DRENDARI! (just a picture, I don't need stats hehehe)

Vertigens.

[Maltese Changeling]

I went ahead and got my copy. I'll ignore the Scarred Lands setting-specific fluff (although some of it, like the Titanomachy material, is easily transferred to my homebrew Point of Light campaign), but I can already see a large number of monsters to send after my players.

[JoeGKushner]

Given the strengths of FD, a counter collection seems a no-brainer.

For Relics and Rituals, what's the focus going to be on? The first one has numerous PrCs as well as spells and magic items.

With the methodology of 4e, 'spells' aren't necessarily just a spellcaster's thing anymore.

Rituals, magic items, paragon paths and epic destinies on the other hand... Might be a good place to put a lot of the crunch for the player's side. Heck, make it "Relics & Rituals: The Player's Guide To the Scarred Lands" and make it the equivalent of the FR or Eberron Player's Guide book with lots of crunch and things that all players are going to want.

[Twowolves]

Originally Posted by Fiery_Dragon

TwoWolves - I'm kicking around some ideas, but most rely on 4E to really sell the product. There's so much great material available for 3E that I wouldn't know what to add in terms of being rules neutral that would add to the setting... and not be a false start. What about a big map of the Scarred Lands, similar to the one we did for Ptolus? Big, prestige vinyl wall art? Anyone?

- JB

Hey, I like those initials you got there

Well, look at the timeline of releases for the 3.0/3.5 setting. First was R&RI, and the "setting" was in the spell description intro fluff, the magic item descriptions, and the PrCs. Then a gazeteer, thin on everything. Then Mithril/Holofaust/Burok Torn gave us microcosms of the setting. The Campaign setting book for Ghelspad had a lot of info in it, but by then, the details for any given region were spread out between the Campaign Setting book, the Gazeteer, the Player's Guide books, two Relics & Ritual books, 3 novels, and a dozen City/Regional books.

Take the Vigils, for example (why Vesh wasn't make THE "point of light" campaign example I'll never understand). There is info about them in R&RI, the gazeteer, the CS, the Player's Guide to Rangers and Rogues and even more in the Player's Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers! Not to mention the two "Vigil Watch" sourcebooks. When I want to use these guys, I have to cross referrence almost a dozen books (I've taken to using notecards with page references on them).

A 4th ed "clean up" of this would still be of value to me. So much information on this setting is scattered to the winds, dished out in dribs and drabs over 2 dozen books and several years. Tying it together, using something like the 3rd ed Forgotten Realms CS as a guide to layout perhaps, would be awesome. The 4th ed rule bits ought to (IMHO) bring things like the 9 major gods and their clerics, the defeated titans and their druids, Vigilants, RuneMasters, Blood Witches, Holofaust Necromancers, Calastian Dragon Riders and Black Dragoons, all these major flavors of the setting up to date. The essential elements to play the sorts of characters (and their foes) that make the setting unique should be the "crunch", but the consolidation and perhaps the advancing of the timeline (if you were so inclined) would be of value no matter what edition rules we play with.

[Klaus]

Originally Posted by avin

DRENDARI! (just a picture, I don't need stats hehehe)

Vertigens.

Believe me, I voted for Drendari to be in this book.

[catsclaw227]

I would buy a consolidated Ghelspad Campaign Setting book in a second. Like Twowolves said, the information is all over the place. A crunch light book would be OK, but I would want to know there were books coming that had stats for Paragon Paths, Organizations, wilderness hazards, etc.

I liked SL's regional sourcebooks as well, but they need more cohesion tying them together, maybe referencing sections in the Campaign Setting book. Hmmm, maybe not... just thinking out loud.

[neuronphaser]

Originally Posted by Twowolves

Hey, I like those initials you got there

Well, look at the timeline of releases for the 3.0/3.5 setting. First was R&RI, and the "setting" was in the spell description intro fluff, the magic item descriptions, and the PrCs. Then a gazeteer, thin on everything. Then Mithril/Holofaust/Burok Torn gave us microcosms of the setting. The Campaign setting book for Ghelspad had a lot of info in it, but by then, the details for any given region were spread out between the Campaign Setting book, the Gazeteer, the Player's Guide books, two Relics & Ritual books, 3 novels, and a dozen City/Regional books.

Take the Vigils, for example (why Vesh wasn't make THE "point of light" campaign example I'll never understand). There is info about them in R&RI, the gazeteer, the CS, the Player's Guide to Rangers and Rogues and even more in the Player's Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers! Not to mention the two "Vigil Watch" sourcebooks. When I want to use these guys, I have to cross referrence almost a dozen books (I've taken to using notecards with page references on them).

A 4th ed "clean up" of this would still be of value to me. So much information on this setting is scattered to the winds, dished out in dribs and drabs over 2 dozen books and several years. Tying it together, using something like the 3rd ed Forgotten Realms CS as a guide to layout perhaps, would be awesome. The 4th ed rule bits ought to (IMHO) bring things like the 9 major gods and their clerics, the defeated titans and their druids, Vigilants, RuneMasters, Blood Witches, Holofaust Necromancers, Calastian Dragon Riders and Black Dragoons, all these major flavors of the setting up to date. The essential elements to play the sorts of characters (and their foes) that make the setting unique should be the "crunch", but the consolidation and perhaps the advancing of the timeline (if you were so inclined) would be of value no matter what edition rules we play with.

Agreed here! I loved Scarred Lands but couldn't keep up with the volume of releases, so it dropped off my radar shortly after I picked up the big hardcover Ghelspad book.

If you can tighten up the releases something like this, I'd be game:
- Creature Compendium 2+: more monsters, not too much setting specific stuff (but maybe some obvious references here and there if necessary)
- Relics & Rituals: all the rituals, magic items, and cool gear. Sequels are fine.
- Campaign Book: mostly rules-lite or rules-non-existent; just compile all the setting material from the 3.0/3.5 books into one source and bam!
- Players Guide: turn all the Prestige Classes into Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, compile and convert the feats (get rid of the ones we don't need in 4e), toss in whatever other odds and ends are necessary for players (the race write-ups) and you're set.

The new bar for updating & compiling has been set -- IMHO -- by the Earthdawn compendiums by Redbrick. They literally stuffed info from a bazillion books all into like 2 or 3 books. With a little streamlining and some good layout, you can cut down a LOT of info into much more concise entries and make some good books like that. Pleases the purists, gives the n00bs everything they need without having to sift through a million different books, and you can charge a higher cover price.

At least, that's my view. Not sure if it bears out to reality or not...

[Fiery_Dragon]

Excellent points. Thanks guys!

[Glyfair]

Originally Posted by Fiery_Dragon

Our goal was similar to the initial release of Creature Collection - providing a monster book that could be used in anyone's campaign, with just enough hints about the Scarred Lands to keep people intrigued and wanting more.

And may I say that I approve of this approach. When I buy a monster book I don't want too much campaign specific information. Just enough to add flavor, and not so much I feel the book loses value when used for a different campagin setting.

[Fiery Todd]

Originally Posted by Klaus

There are over 50 pieces of new artwork. Just from me there are two new Aasatthi, a new Bat Devil, Angler Ooze, Vengaurak, Ratman, Spider-Eye Goblin, Valraven and Charfiends. FDP's Todd Secord did a lot of new pictures, including two new Proud, Narleth, Wrack Dragon, Crown and Hollow Naga and more. Rich Thomas contributed a few pictures as well.

...and don't forget the contributions of our new friend to FDP, Mr. John Wilson, who did 5 new illustrations as well as the layout for the front cover. And then we have David Sourwine who is the main magic man behind said cover. Just want to make sure that everyone is covered.

[ranig]

Originally Posted by neuronphaser

If you can tighten up the releases something like this, I'd be game:
- Creature Compendium 2+: more monsters, not too much setting specific stuff (but maybe some obvious references here and there if necessary)
- Relics & Rituals: all the rituals, magic items, and cool gear. Sequels are fine.
- Campaign Book: mostly rules-lite or rules-non-existent; just compile all the setting material from the 3.0/3.5 books into one source and bam!
- Players Guide: turn all the Prestige Classes into Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, compile and convert the feats (get rid of the ones we don't need in 4e), toss in whatever other odds and ends are necessary for players (the race write-ups) and you're set.

+1

In the R&R (or the Player's Guide), it would be really great to have a Penumbral Lord (or Shadowmancer, or whateveryouwantsir!) PC class...

[VictorC]

Originally Posted by Fiery_Dragon

Big, prestige vinyl wall art? Anyone?
- JB

Yes please.