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Has Anyone Converted CR XP to Flat XP for 3.x? i.e. Making Pathfinder and AD&D xp =
Here's the deal. I am going to be running Pathfinder on the SSLLLOOOWWWW XP progression chart. I am also going to be giving xp for gp, as in 1e. As I look at Pathfinder's slow XP progression chart, and compare it t AD&D, it's pretty close to the average xp progression charts of all the classes in AD&D.
So, with that in mind, and hating the whole CR system, has anyone ever taken on the task of converting xp for monsters in 3.x to flat xp as per AD&D?
I guess I can use the old AD&D monster xp awards, since with the PF slow tables, the overall average XP was so close. But if someone already did the work for me, which took into consideration the more powerful nature of some of the 3.x monsters, it would be good to use that chart.
Thx!
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
Unearthed Arcana, pages 213-214. Of course, it still uses CR, so I'm not sure if it will appeal, after all.
The problem with UA's system is that in the CR calculation it is based on, it assumes a certain number of successful encounters to reach a certain level (a concept which I detest,) and also assumes the regular XP progression system in 3.x, which I think is way too fast.
But thanks for the idea to look there though. I'm be surprised if no one else ever did a chart for flat XP.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
See my sig for the Trailblazer preview. The "Encounter Budgeting" does what I think you're asking for.
But I am a bit confused, since I am pretty sure Pathfinder included this same work.
I guess what I'm looking for, to put it simply, is shown on the last column of pgs. 196-215 of the AD&D DMG. It say that if I kill a rust monster I get 185 + 4/hp in xp, no matter what level I am. If anyone has done such a chart for 3.x monsters, that's what I am looking for.
The reason I am reluctant to use the AD&D charts, even though the PF character XP progression chart is similar to the average of all the classes XP in AD&D, is that in 3.x some of the monsters got substantial power-ups, as compared to their AD&D counterparts.
Even if the chart someone may have developed is based on the 3.x progression for character xp, all I would need to do for the slower progression in PF is divide that xp award by 3 or 4. That way all monsters are consistent with each other, at least, in terms of xp relative to monster power.
Does anyone have such a chart?
Thx.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
The Unearthed Arcana chart will do everything you want it to, except slow down leveling or rate XP values by HP totals. Er, except 3e monsters are generally assumed to have average HP anyway. . .
Mark me down as confused, as well. Maybe I'm just not getting the gist here.
The Unearthed Arcana chart will do everything you want it to, except slow down leveling or rate XP values by HP totals. Er, except 3e monsters are generally assumed to have average HP anyway. . .
Mark me down as confused, as well. Maybe I'm just not getting the gist here.
Thats because I Suck at explaining what I am looking for. And the more thought i put into it, the more I realize what I want could not exist. What I was asking for is what is in UA. What I actually want, is another thing. Lemme do some work on it, and I'll explain later in this thread.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
You're looking for a system where XP is flat (not dependent on PC level, like UA), but not determined by CR.
For example, a rust monster is CR 3, which determines his XP value in the default system and the UA system (one is dynamic, the other static) but what you want is...
5 HD Aberration = (50 XP x5) = 250 XP
SA: Rust 200 XP
SQ: Scent (100 XP), Darkvision (50 XP)
--------------------------------------
Total: 600 XP
Thost totals are determined by a list that would look something like...
HD Value
Aberration 50 XP/HD
Anaimal 15 XP/HD
Construct 75 XP/HD
...
SA
Breath Weapon, damaging: 20 XP/die of damage
Breath Weapon, debilitating: 500 XP
Frightening Aura: 400 XP
...
SQ
Incorporeal: 1,000 XP
Low Light Vision: 25 XP
DR, Silver: 10 XP/5 points
DR, Good: 40 XP/5 Points
SR: 10 XP per point of SR over 10.
...
You want it balanced to 3.5/Pathfinder's XP tables, but not to an encounters/level system like 3.5 uses.
Sorry, doesn't exist. Upper Krust's CR guide might help, but I don't think anyone's broken down the monsters like this since 2e...
You're looking for a system where XP is flat (not dependent on PC level, like UA), but not determined by CR.
For example, a rust monster is CR 3, which determines his XP value in the default system and the UA system (one is dynamic, the other static) but what you want is...
5 HD Aberration = (50 XP x5) = 250 XP
SA: Rust 200 XP
SQ: Scent (100 XP), Darkvision (50 XP)
--------------------------------------
Total: 600 XP
Thost totals are determined by a list that would look something like...
HD Value
Aberration 50 XP/HD
Anaimal 15 XP/HD
Construct 75 XP/HD
...
SA
Breath Weapon, damaging: 20 XP/die of damage
Breath Weapon, debilitating: 500 XP
Frightening Aura: 400 XP
...
SQ
Incorporeal: 1,000 XP
Low Light Vision: 25 XP
DR, Silver: 10 XP/5 points
DR, Good: 40 XP/5 Points
SR: 10 XP per point of SR over 10.
...
You want it balanced to 3.5/Pathfinder's XP tables, but not to an encounters/level system like 3.5 uses.
Sorry, doesn't exist. Upper Krust's CR guide might help, but I don't think anyone's broken down the monsters like this since 2e...
Was I close?
YES!!!! You're Jedi Mind-Reading Skills have grown STRONG!
The ultimate answer I was trying to get at is---if I used a Pathfinder slow XP based game, where I awarded xp for both gold and magic items, how much XP is each monster worth, if I wanted to keep xp progression equivalent or close to how it was with AD&D?
Here is something I put together in a spreadsheet to help me get the basics down, and organize my thoughts. Feel free to add to it or use it.
I wanted to know, using a baseline common to all systems, how many kills does it take under each system to level? So I averaged all the 10 classes xp tables together to get an average AD&D XP needed for each level. I compared that to the Pathfinder slow XP chart, as well as 3.0/3.5's base xp table, on sheet 1 of the Excel Spreadsheet.
The next sheet breaks out, using orc XP as the common denominator, how many orc kills does it take to level under AD&D using AD&D orc xp as compared to Pathfinder slow progression using AD&D orc xp.
Next to that, as per the 3.5 DMG, is the 1/2 CR orc xp, to calculate under Pathfinder slow and the 3.0/3.5 XP tables, how many orcs does it take to level up each level? I could only do these to level 8, because beyond that level you dont get xp for such low CR monsters in 3.0/3.5. In AD&D even at 20th level you got 15 xp for an orc kill. As a total percentage of your xp at that level it was miniscule, since AD&D's xp needed for higher levels were massively more than what's needed in 3.0/3.5.
Lastly, since AD&D used GP and magic items kept as XP, I figured a good way to truly compare the systems on an "orc killed" basis is to deduct the XP gained from non-combat XP from the equation, to see how many orcs are truly needed to level in each system. That number is modifiable if you just change the percentage. I remember readig somewhere that in AD&D 20% of the xp gained came from combat, 80% from gp, magic items, and miscellaneous. That figure felt accurate from my memory of that game.
What I determined by doing this spreadsheet is that I basically could use the Pathfinder slow xp progression tables, and use the AD&D monster manual xp awards, in order to keep PF level progression close to AD&D. Pathfinder slow is harder than AD&D in the early levels, meaning it takes more orc kills to level, and easier than AD&D at later levels. Even that can be taken care of by using the percentage difference as a multiplier to the AD&D monster manual xp awards.
The only factors to take into consideration would be how certain monsters are much tougher in 3.5 relative to PC levels than they were under AD&D. In that case, since there is not a system like you outlined above (AD&D's system, basically ) to determine XP on a monster-by-monster basis for 3.5, I will just have to wing it, and add bonus xp where needed.
What do you think?
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
SInce CR is tied to the monster creation "rules" which is based on their stats, why not just "assume" that CR is the new Hit Dice of AD&D. In which case, multiply CR by some value, and that's how much XP to give.
That's what I do.
I add up all the CR of stuff killed in the game, then multiply by 300 (standard XP for a 1 CR encounter), then divide by the number of PCs.
It's quick, it's easy. If you wan to slow down advancement, choose a smaller multiplier.
Funny, I've been thinking of doing the exact same thing for my next game. I have not decided on either PF slow or an average xp need from a previous edition. We play mostly levels 1-12 so I'm thinking PF Slow.
I was planning on using the table from Dragon #80 for xp given for monster defeated. If I remember that article altered the THACO, saves and xp for monsters a bit.
I figured that after a bit of adventuring I could see if it needed tweeking.
Funny, I've been thinking of doing the exact same thing for my next game. I have not decided on either PF slow or an average xp need from a previous edition. We play mostly levels 1-12 so I'm thinking PF Slow.
I was planning on using the table from Dragon #80 for xp given for monster defeated. If I remember that article altered the THACO, saves and xp for monsters a bit.
I figured that after a bit of adventuring I could see if it needed tweeking.
Great minds think alike, huh? If nothing else came of this, at least the excel spreadsheet i attached above might be of use to some people.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
SInce CR is tied to the monster creation "rules" which is based on their stats, why not just "assume" that CR is the new Hit Dice of AD&D. In which case, multiply CR by some value, and that's how much XP to give.
That's what I do.
I add up all the CR of stuff killed in the game, then multiply by 300 (standard XP for a 1 CR encounter), then divide by the number of PCs.
It's quick, it's easy. If you wan to slow down advancement, choose a smaller multiplier.
Good idea man. Since the CR is internally balanced, on a monster to monster basis it could work. I'll just use the # of orc kills per level thing to make it be scaled to AD&D advancement rates. It ought to work, and better than using old XP from AD&D because the monsters that are more powerful nowadays are scaled against each other accordingly with the CR system. Damn good idea.
Thanks!
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
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