4e / GSL Tiefling, Dragonborn : have they gained traction ?

[Aloïsius]

We have 4e since last year. Have you the feeling that the new races, tiefling and dragonborn, have gained the same "traction" than the good old standard D&D races (dwarf, elf, halfling...) ? Or are they rather the 4e equivalent of the half-dragons or half-outsider of 3e : popular for min-max build but rather bland inside ?

I'm still not convinced with their graphic design, especially the horn and tail stuff of the tiefling. We have been accustomed to it since at least Age of Worms from Paizo, I still don't like it.

So, do you use them in your campaign ? Do you like to play them as a PC ? Do your DM allow them in his/her game ? Do you think they will disappear in the next edition ?

[ferratus]

I'm discouraging Dragonborn myself, but given that there were 3 half-dragons in my 8 years of playing 3e, and 3 dragonborn in the first 8 months of playing 4e, it seems my dislike of them is not universal.

I haven't seen any Tieflings yet, but then I haven't seen any drow either and we all know how popular they are. I also have only seen one elf, while I have seen 4 eladrin. Of the PHB2 classes, only the Deva has been adopted, because someone wanted to play an Avenger (not having much fun with the defender role of the dragonborn paladin he was playing earlier). I'm playing a half-orc, but I was playing a homebrew half-orc before then. Otherwise, people are still too busy playing their PHB1 races and classes to adopt the new ones.

Humans have taken a huge hit in popularity now that they aren't quite as obvious a choice as they were in 3e, but are still more popular than they were 2e. Dwarves and halflings seem to be about the same for popularity as they were in 3e.

[Fallen Seraph]

Well Tieflings have always been popular with my group. For myself and one other player the vast majority of our characters are Tieflings. They in general too have been a popular race since 2e.

I have seen a increasing number of Dragonborn on the forums so I think they are growing in popularity.

I can't really see either dissappearing in the next edition, especially not the Tiefling.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Both dragonborn and tieflings have appeared as PCs in my campaign.

[Shemeska]

Tieflings didn't have to try very hard, because they've been around and popular since 2e.

I -adore- tieflings. But, I cannot stand the appearance and homogeneity of appearance that 4e forced onto tieflings. Gone are the grab-bag of random fiendish traits, mixed bloodlines, and unique individual appearances, all in favor a default origin story for all tieflings and a set of gigantic horns, a thick brow-ridge, and overly large tail. They've lost some of their hallmarks of the last twenty years in the process of WotC including them as a core race, and IMO too much was forcibly sacrificed in the process.

Suffice to say, tieflings won't be going anywhere come next edition, though I suspect we might see them return to having more of their original variety back versus the 4e monolithic default. Same thing with genasi who look radically different in 4e to the point of being almost different creatures.

Dragonborn... I honestly can't say. I'd be fine using them as characters as they are or even as alternate half-dragon PCs in a 3.x game. I can't really speak on their traction come next edition though. They'll probably still be around, but perhaps less prominance, especially if any putative 5e decides to take a different route than 4e style-wise and try to reclaim all the players that dropped out (kinda like 3e with 2e).

[Maggan]

Originally Posted by Aloïsius

So, do you use them in your campaign ? Do you like to play them as a PC ? Do your DM allow them in his/her game ? Do you think they will disappear in the next edition ?

1. Yepp, we use them a lot. They are very popular among the players, as exciting new races to complement the old and, to us, stale dwarfs, elfs and humans.

2. Sure do. My current PC is a dragonborn fighter.

3. Again, yes. We allow all playable races.

4. Hmmm, will they disappear in the next edition? No, I don't think so. They might be retooled and reprioritised, but I don't think they'll disappear wholesale.

/M

[jdcash]

I play a dragonborn and love it. Have not had experience with tiefling. A little too dark in origin for my tastes, but I see no reason why others would not like/use them.

[Piratecat]

Out of 13 characters we have 4 humans, 3 half-elves, 2 warforged, 1 elf, 1 dragonborn, 1 doppelganger, and 1 wilden. I've played a dragonborn myself (and loved it), and I have some tiefling NPCs waiting around in the wings. No one in my group seems worried or put off by the new races.

I have changed some tieflings' appearance, however. I'm happy letting some of them appear albino, and the size of tails and horns varies quite a bit.

[Wormwood]

We've had tiefling and dragonborn characters since we played our first game of 4e.

The races fit just fine.

[Runestar]

Considering that I grew bored of sundry races many years back, and cannot picture myself ever playing any of them save human, I don't see how the new races can be any worse for me.

[Psikus]

Dragonborn are, by far, the most played race in my group. I think they're definitely here to stay. As for tieflings, we have only had one so far. I like their new appearance and unified origin, but we just don't have the kind of players that should go crazy for them (i.e. drow players). That said, I'd bet that the dark, tortured race that will get real traction this edition are Shadar'kai (and they aren't even in a PHB yet!)

[Pickles JG]

Originally Posted by Shemeska

I -adore- tieflings. But, I cannot stand the appearance and homogeneity of appearance that 4e forced onto tieflings. Gone are the grab-bag of random fiendish traits, mixed bloodlines, and unique individual appearances, all in favor a default origin story for all tieflings and a set of gigantic horns, a thick brow-ridge, and overly large tail. They've lost some of their hallmarks of the last twenty years in the process of WotC including them as a core race, and IMO too much was forcibly sacrificed in the process.

+1. But I can just use the 2e fluff & art & be happy.

[Hexmage-EN]

I don't care much for Dragonborn, but I love Tieflings. I know there are some people who miss the random features that Tieflings could have and dislike the homogenization of features in 4E, but in my opinion random features would be more indicative of an Abyssal origin than an Infernal one. I especially didn't like previous editions' depictions of them with goat legs, and there are still some 4E Tiefling illustrations that I don't care for.

This illustration, though, is awesome.

[Cadfan]

In my area, Tieflings and Dragonborn are pretty popular.

Halflings, Half Elves, and maybe Dwarves... not so popular. Straight up lame, even.

I think those three have conceptual problems for newer players. Older players love the tropes, but newer players are ever so slightly a group of culture aliens. So they look at halflings, and see "people who are short like children." Ok. And dwarves? "People who are short and also fat." And half elves? "People who are.... umm...." Halflings and Dwarves have cultures, sure, but those cultures are largely just copies of existing human cultures, meaning that its trivially easy for someone to create a human PC who's stolen the Halfling or Dwarf cultural shtick. And Half Elves are just... a bag full of empty.

Meanwhile Tieflings and Dragonborn are interesting and unique. Tieflings have an obvious hook (humans except demon touched) and they have physical differences on an entirely different scale from "really short" or "short and also fat." Dragonborn also have an obvious hook and physical differentiation that stops them from being "humans but kinda not."

[Hexmage-EN]

Dwarves are my favorite race, and I especially love the art direction for them in 4E.

In fact, let me rank the PHB and PHB2 races by how much I like them:

1) Dwarf
2) Gnome
3) Tiefling
4) Goliath
5) Human
6) Elf
7) Deva
8) Eladrin
9) Half-Elf
10) Half-Orc
11) Dragonborn
12) Shifter
13) Halfling

[Hereticus]

Originally Posted by Aloïsius

We have 4e since last year. Have you the feeling that the new races, tiefling and dragonborn, have gained the same "traction" than the good old standard D&D races (dwarf, elf, halfling...) ? Or are they rather the 4e equivalent of the half-dragons or half-outsider of 3e : popular for min-max build but rather bland inside?

Tieflings at least have some tie-in to a previous edition, and some before that if you include fiendish heritage creatures like Cambions and Alu-Demons.

If I were designing the Dragonborne and Dragonspawn races, I would have tied them in as sub-races of Lizardfolk.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In our highest level party, I play a Dragonborn Warlord, and another player a Tiefling Paladin. It was either our first or second regular D&D 4 game, and I don't think anyone of us regrets their racial choice.

But I don't want to play just one races, so in the other campaigns I ran with other race/class combinations.

[Shemeska]

Originally Posted by Hexmage-EN

I don't care much for Dragonborn, but I love Tieflings. I know there are some people who miss the random features that Tieflings could have and dislike the homogenization of features in 4E, but in my opinion random features would be more indicative of an Abyssal origin than an Infernal one. I especially didn't like previous editions' depictions of them with goat legs, and there are still some 4E Tiefling illustrations that I don't care for.

This illustration, though, is awesome.

I see your brow-ridge and raise you goat legs.

[Fallen Seraph]

Tiefling picture competition! I am so there *begins scrounging around* Hmm... Diterlizzi had a Tiefling picture I really liked, got to find it.

Say, Shemeska do you know of any 2e book that had a particular focus on Tieflings?

[Hereticus]

Originally Posted by Psikus

Dragonborn are, by far, the most played race in my group. I think they're definitely here to stay. As for tieflings, we have only had one so far. I like their new appearance and unified origin, but we just don't have the kind of players that should go crazy for them (i.e. drow players). That said, I'd bet that the dark, tortured race that will get real traction this edition are Shadar'kai (and they aren't even in a PHB yet!)

Fourth edition was set up so all classes had a combat aspect to them. Moreso than in the previous three editions. With the PHB1, Dragonborn were the only race with a Strength bonus. There was a built-in popularity for combat maximization.

Now with Half Orcs and Goliaths, they no longer have the Strength bonus monopoly.