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The title of the thread is a bit wrong, but I wasn't sure how to phrase what I'm looking for with brevity.
Practically every setting I've seen, humans are the predominant, most widely spread civilzed race. All the others are savage (humanoids), or stuck in their corners of the world (demi-humans). There's never a Human god, or even a creation myth for the Humans, even though most other things have them. If anything, humans are the dominant minority in terms of political power and/or number, and assumed to be the "default" unless you're in one of the Elf forests or Dwarf mountains.
It essentially comes off as Human Centric, with the token "guy with stuff on his forehead". To use an analogy, most to me are, as far as racial demographics are concerned, like Star Trek.
Which makes sense; that's how it is in our world, that's what we're familiar with, and that's the status quo. That is what most are going to be relatible.
What I want to know is, what happens when that's not the case? Where the demographics are less like Star Trek and more like Babylon 5.
Anyone have a world where the humans aren't the most prominent? They don't have the numbers, or control as much of the known world?
I'm very curious about any setting where humans are the new kid on the block, or are in the twilight of their existence. What was the impact there? Did the players go along with it?
Disclaimer: I'm not really looking to argue whether my opening paragraph is right or not. It's my perception, and maybe there is a campaign setting out there where humans aren't the most populous, or that X setting does slightly not fit into my definition, or setting Y has a human god. If that's the case, then hey, I'm wrong, you're right. But I don't want to derail from the topic; I want to talk about worlds where Humans aren't the default.
Well in the setting I am developing right now for 4e I don't have Humans as dying out, or new to the world, etc. But I don't have them as prominent or as signifigant.
The setting is one where all the planes besides for one has been slowly destroyed by this new force in the universe (it is actually a new universe forming and destroying the old).
As such Humans along with all other planar races are refuges in this plane. So they have the exact same power, numbers, etc. as anyone else. Basically everyone is on equal footing. There is racism here and there that can cause pockets of power for certain races but overall even playing field.
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As such Humans along with all other planar races are refuges in this plane. So they have the exact same power, numbers, etc. as anyone else. Basically everyone is on equal footing. There is racism here and there that can cause pockets of power for certain races but overall even playing field.
That's really intriguing. I like the refugee angle.
A guy I watch on LJ mentioned in the primary continent in his game, Humans made up 70% of the population, but they were slaves up until 150 years ago to Eladrin (who are 3% of the population).
That's really intriguing. I like the refugee angle.
A guy I watch on LJ mentioned in the primary continent in his game, Humans made up 70% of the population, but they were slaves up until 150 years ago to Eladrin (who are 3% of the population).
Thanks, I find it fun that a Bladeling for instance would be just as much of a population as Humans, Elves, etc. It helps make a sort of Sigil feel across a whole plane (that and some elements of style, etc. are similar too )
Hmm... The slavery angle with larger population is reminiscent of slavery in the USA. While not as extreme, there was a larger population of slaves compared to non-slaves.
Another style I have pulled various times too is having Humanity as the "base race", so while it may possibly be the largest in numbers it is being warped into other ones. It could be influence from the Far Realms, possession by spirits, technological alterations (from Human to Warforged-type being), etc.
__________________ Secret Member of... *blink, blink* Damn you amnesia!
You know what I'm sick of? Human centric worlds where all the humans are the same, or even able to work together. I know the Terry pratchett thing - when you have Dwarves and Trolls, hating a human with a different accent is harder - but really. I think it wastes a lot of roleplaying potential to have 'Human' cultures and 'Elf' cultures - especially when there's different Elf cultures but not human ones!
I think it wastes a lot of roleplaying potential to have 'Human' cultures and 'Elf' cultures - especially when there's different Elf cultures but not human ones!
I think Eberron went a step in the right direction by saying there's less of an emphasis on Race than there is on Nationality. Racism is there, but a Dwarf and a human from Country A are more likely to feel a kinship/accept one another than two humans from different countries.
Although I disagree that there are "different elf cultures". Unless we're talking sub-races, usually there's one elf culture, one dwarf culture, and multiple human cultures. I rarely see demi-humans with multiple cultures (Eberron elves the exception).
My homebrew is reasonably humanocentric but the human cultures are entirely divergent and many of them are more hostile towards other humans than they are towards elves or dwarves or dragonborn. I understand that a humanocentric setting feels the norm and people are interesting in diverging from it, but especially with homebrews it is good to give the players some familiar elements.
Check out Dragonmech. Dwarves are the most populous race I believe, and while humans are in second place, they're a very ANGRY runner up. A lot of work went into fluffing out both dwarven and human clans, as well as barbarian tribes that accept just about any race(And are made of chaotic monk barbarians, at that). Elves are almost nonexistant now, since their forests were devistated the worst, so I don't think they have seperate groups).
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
My current Classic D&D campaign is set during a time when the Elven and Dwarven Empires are still at their height, vast and organized Hobgoblin Dicatorships are constant menaces, and monsters like Nagas, Sphinxes, and Rakshasas have their own kingdoms on the surface.
Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and Humans are all relatively recent invaders to the continent. Gnomes appear to be native. Elves and Dwarves arrived 500 years ago, in both cases bringing Halflings with them as a peasant class. Humans arrived about 200 years ago, and most are at an iron-age level of technology, inferior to that of the Demi-Humans. Only Dwarves have plate armor, for instance, while really good chainmail and swords are still the province of Elves. Humans are mostly scattered tribesmen and nomads, with some few city-states. Both Elves and Dwarves use human nations as buffer-states. The Elves and Dwarves regard humans as a cheap and ready source of mercenaries and labor. Elves also magically charm humans into becoming pets, playthings, and ornamental people for their palaces.
The Elves (who are divided into five cultures that squabble constantly) are basically androgynous, hedonistic, and often viciously petty, while the Dwarves tend to be willfully ignorant, chauvinistic, and consumed by greed. Both races are basically dependent on Halflings to grow their food and perform most menial tasks. Human numbers are growing, however.
While the Elves spend their time fighting each other over questions of aesthetics and the Dwarves ignore everything that isn't standing in the way of acquiring more gold, Humans are learning the technology of the Demi-Humans, and are beginning to surpass the Elves in the Art of magic. One day the Demi-human and Humanoid Empires will fall before the Human hordes, but that day is still centuries away.
How do your players take it? I mean, do they play into the racial stereotypes/cultures you've set down, or do they go for more traditional stereotypes/cultures of their race, despite the setting?
You know what I'm sick of? Human centric worlds where all the humans are the same, or even able to work together. I know the Terry pratchett thing - when you have Dwarves and Trolls, hating a human with a different accent is harder - but really. I think it wastes a lot of roleplaying potential to have 'Human' cultures and 'Elf' cultures - especially when there's different Elf cultures but not human ones!
Well, the Discworld also have different cultures that hate each other - see the Ankh-Morpork versus Klatch war in "Jingo".
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Well, the Discworld also have different cultures that hate each other - see the Ankh-Morpork versus Klatch war in "Jingo".
Plus if you read into the history of the Sto Lat plains the older watchmen are always mentioning there was certainly a history of everyone going at each other.
Heck, there's even a growing rivalry between the dwarves of Ankh-Morpork and the dwarves of Everywhere Else.
How do your players take it? I mean, do they play into the racial stereotypes/cultures you've set down, or do they go for more traditional stereotypes/cultures of their race, despite the setting?
So far, I've had no problem getting players to embrace and play their cultures. I don't force the issue. Instead, I give the players lists of 10 things the average member of their culture believes, but also tell them that their PCs could be rebels who don't believe those things. The campaign is set in and around a cultural crossroads area, so there's going to be a certain amount of cross-influence.
The players seem to like playing Elves for the feeling of living almost without boundaries of any kind, except the need to do everything beautifully. My Halflings have a Redneck-like culture, which players have so far loved to play up. Nobody has played a Dwarf yet, but that's simply because they won't work with a party that includes Elves. Once the players met their first Dwarven NPCs (with their outrageous Germanic accents, superior armor, and black-and-white morality) they started clamoring to get to play them.
Then again, my Demi-human cultures are take-offs on traditional concepts of these races. Medieval Elves were tricky, amoral and lusty, totally unlike Tolkien's conception of near-angels. My Dwarves are inspired by Wagner's Nibelungs. Tolkien intended his Hobbits as an ode to English country life, so I made my Halflings like over-the-top American Rednecks and Hillbillies.
Last edited by Clavis; 13th May 2009 at 04:49 PM..
The Diamond Throne campaign setting of Arcana Evolved is decidedly non-human centric. In the 10,000 year history of the setting, humans have seldom been ruled by their own kind, and when they have, war, famine and magical cataclysms are the norm. Currently the known world is divided up between three major races, the noble Hu-Charad Giants, the malevolent Harrid, and the Dragons of the Squamous Horde. While humans are still one of the most numerous of the eleven PC races, they wield very little political power in the major nations. The Dragons see them as useful servants, the Giants see them as children in need of guidance, and the Harrid see them as a convenient source of cheap labor. Oh, and of course, most monsters think they are delicious.
I emulated this theme in my first homebrew campaign world for AE, making the Giants into a steamtech-powered hegemony convinced that humanity was dangerously ignorant and should be controlled. Beyond the Hegemony, a vast wilderness area was ruled by the Litorians (lion-men), who considered humans to be little more than talking monkeys, and the air and sky were controlled by the Trade Principalities of the Faen (gnomes/halflings). Humans weren't even the most numerous race, because a magical accident had uplifted all the world's brown rats into the Nezumi, who bred much faster.
Still, the humans of Thraevin had surprising diversity. On the surface, there appeared to be two types of humans, city-folk who had become part of the Giant Hegemony, and the tribals who attempted to keep the "old ways" alive. Yet, the tribes of humans each had a distinct culture and language. While they shared some similarities (notably totem animal worship) I tried where possible to underline the differences in their core value systems, their manner of speach, dress, and accents. Not being terribly clever, I repurposed real-world cultural stereotypes for this, but my players seemed to appreciate the variety in the NPCs they interacted with.
Robert "Giants Rule: Because Humans Have Proven They Can't Do It Themselves" Ranting
In my epic campaign, humans are only predominant on two of the 13 worlds, and one of those is an alternate earth. Two worlds doesn't have them at all. And they have the same myths of creation and the same variety of gods as everyone else. We've never played it differently.
__________________ Barbarian: "I'm going to run the door down with my shoulder."
DM: "Ouch, that hurt you."
Thief: "We'll, I'm opening the lock then..."
DM "Sorry, no such luck."
Wizard: "Darn, I'm all out of spells."
Fighter: "Fighter & Barbarian pick up an old tree to use as a ram aaaaand... here we go!"
DM "The door is as steady as it looks, unfortunately. Loud noise and a tree on top of you is all you get"
Paladin: "Out of frustration, I grab the handle and rattle at the door."
DM: The unlocked door opens with a squeak and you stumble into the room - now roll for your balance."
Players: "You know you suck?"
DM: *snicker*
Well, in my setting there is a human world (ours), and a non-human (Eldeven) world that has almost no humans in it.
The humans that do live in it exist in the equivalent of the British Isles though there are only about a few hundred of them at most (counting part human offspring). They are mostly descendents of the survivor's of Arthur's Court (Kamelod) though only a few of them are aware of this, most of the original survivors having died off. And no human player characters exist in the other world. Just as there are no non-human player characters in our world, except on those occasions when various characters visit each other's world(s).
These two worlds interact from time to time, in secret, but humans have no direct influence on the other world, although because of recent events human religious ideas are having an effect upon the other world.
So when playing the other world human culture has very limited impact, and the same is true vice versa, our world.
Though both worlds have an interest in the other.
This keeps either set of cultures (for with the Humans you have Romans and Vikings and Europeans and Barbarians and Syrians and Persians and Arabs and Christians and Jews and Muslims and Pagans - and with the Eldevens you have Sidelh, Lorahn, Jukarn, Fyel, Avafal, and the Adharma [Giants] and their various cultures, governments, and religions and so forth) from overwhelming the other, and yet they do interact in different ways.
I of course didn't have to invent any human cultures, religions, societies, or religions, merely research them for the time period involved.
For the Eldevens I had to create a different culture, government, society, religious view etc. for each race, ethnic group, or however it was that they arranged or differentiated themselves.`
My campaign takes place in a sprawling magical metropolis, and I also do the racial pigeon-hole deal. Each of the PHB1 races has their own residential district with its own cultural style.
In the case of humans, they tend to be good at establishing and running governments (a task which other races generally disdain), and their culture is loosely modeled on the ancient Roman.
I'm not quite sure how to handle future races since we haven't got back to my campaign in a while, but in general I'm thinking most of them can be explained as wild (shifters), distant (goliaths), rare (devas), or foreign (drow), etc.
I also don't have to worry about different creation myths since my setting is monotheistic.
My twist on the usual human dominance was also Arcana Evolved influenced. I did a 3E/AE mixed campaign where humans were apparently the dominant political and cultural force (albeit in different political entities and different cultures). However, as the game progressed, the players learned that humans were only dominant on those levels. There was a lot of fantastical happenings that tended to pull races in different directions. As the characters grew more powerful (two separate campaigns), they were pulled into more and more of those happenings.
For example, the elves were a nomadic race that studied the stars to foretell the future of where they would be needed next, and would migrate to the next location a few, mere centuries before they were needed. Elven adventurers are encouraged in elven society, because the elves want contact with other beings that can help. But such adventurers don't tend to get very far into the heart of elven culture. So the elves are very powerful in their niche--knowing where you need to be with the full force of your culture is useful--but don't tend to have long lasting empires.
The players enjoyed this, because it mapped more or less to how the typical fantasy world goes, but had some twists underneath that were fun to discover. When they found out that the faen (from AE) were time travelling fey, however, it got a little strange.
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