Adventures The evil horde on the march - what defenses would they have?

[NewJeffCT]

I have posted a few threads on my evil horde the past few weeks and got a lot of great information. (Thanks to Loonook for the shadows idea and nymrohd for marrash on the air defenses... and thanks to a bunch of people on ideas of what the horde would do when they're encamped.)

Here is the air support thread:
What sort of aerial support would this evil horde have?

And, the thread about defenses while encamped:
What protections would my evil horde have?

The game is a long-running 3.5E game. It is a big group of 7 players at level 14.

This is an army of thousands of humanoids - mostly gnolls - being led by a half-fiend blackguard, a large demon and a spellweaver. It is an army bred for one purpose: to destroy the world of men. They will be there by nightfall.

My initial intention was for the PCs to have a showdown with the leadership of the horde (and a few bodyguards...), after the small human army from the city being marched upon attacks the front lines of the evil horde and hopefully splits their forces. (The city forces are led by a powerful paladin, so chances are his forces will attract some attention)

The evil horde also have assorted lower level casters: shamen/adepts/sorcerers/clerics.

The army has air support, mainly in dire vultures and marrash (fiendish flying gnolls)

The players, however, think they can do a hit & run assault on the army via teleport in and teleport out, and take out one of the bigwigs in 2-3 rounds. They have also bandied about a few of them just fireballing the evil army from 800 feet in the air.

Now, as DM, I would think an evil horde would have some protections against hit & run attacks from mages and sorcerers on the good side, but what? The army will obviously have skirmishers and scouts to prevent conventional attacks, but what about magical ones? What would be some good protections while they are on the move?

Personally, I think it's suicide for them to take on an entire army like that when it can focus its defenses on stopping sneak attacks, but that is just me.

Thanks!

[Bungus]

Originally Posted by NewJeffCT

Thanks!

perhaps a few casters mounted on the dire vultures to deal with possibly attacks from the air. A few dispel magics placed on flyers could be potentially devastating if they are 800 feet up like you say. maybe a marrash shamen/adept as well?

for protections, have some things cast onto items that the evil horde carries with them? i would have to look up which defensive spells can be used that way vs ones that stay stationary. maybe some mundane disguises of some major baddies to fake out True Seeing or similar spells?

good luck.

[Ulrick]

Do the Gnolls have engineers in their ranks?

If so, maybe they can do as the Romans did. They can build a wooden stockade every night before they encamp. Perhaps the spell casters can assist them. Maybe the stockade has wards in certain places for additional protection.

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Ulrick

Do the Gnolls have engineers in their ranks?

If so, maybe they can do as the Romans did. They can build a wooden stockade every night before they encamp. Perhaps the spell casters can assist them. Maybe the stockade has wards in certain places for additional protection.

I'm not too worried about protections when they encamp. That was already taken care of in another thread I posted last week.

What I was concerned about was what is to prevent the PCs (or some wizards/sorcerers from the city), from just flying 800 feet above the army while they advance to siege the human city, and lobbing fireballs down on them until they're out of spells?

[Dausuul]

Okay, so you've really got two different challenges here to defend against - aerial assault by PC mages, and good old "scry-'n-die."

Regarding aerial assault - you said the army has air support with dire vultures and marrash, so why is this a problem? Can't the air support take out or at least challenge attempts by the PCs to bombard from on high? If the existing air support isn't enough, have the big demon gate in flying reinforcements (this may require giving it some extra abilities). 3.X demons are notorious for that sort of thing.

As for scry-'n-die (the teleport in, massacre one target, teleport out tactic), that's a trickier business; as a rule, scry-'n-die results in either complete success or the death of the entire attacking force. Presumably you don't want a TPK, but you also don't want to let the PCs knock off the leadership of the army one by one.

Here's a suggestion: Have a bunch of specialized gnoll shamans whose job is to counter enemy wizard tactics. Let the PCs teleport in and nuke their first target - no reason you can't allow them a bit of initial success. During the couple of rounds in which they're laying the smack down, however, a bunch of these gnoll shamans gather in a circle around them, chanting.

Then they try to teleport out - and the spell fails. The wizard can't even complete the casting (i.e., it doesn't disappear from the wizard's prepared spells). The wizard can immediately tell that the chanting gnolls are the ones preventing the party's escape.

The party then gets swarmed by gnolls and mid-grade demons and beaten within an inch of their lives. If they have the brains God gave a tuna fish, they'll concentrate on killing the gnoll shamans so they can get the hell out. Let them escape in the end, but it should be clear that trying a stunt like that again could very easily result in a TPK.

This way, the PCs get the satisfaction of succeeding with their plan, you establish that this plan cannot be repeated indefinitely, and if it plays out right, you can bask in a couple rounds of sheer terror as the PCs realize they're trapped in the middle of an entire hostile army.

Alternatively, if you don't want to get that tricky, just give the shamans magic items that block teleportation within a given radius, and have them spread throughout the army. The PCs try to teleport in and the spell fizzles. This is an obvious and elementary precaution in a world containing folks who can teleport.

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Dausuul

This way, the PCs get the satisfaction of succeeding with their plan, you establish that this plan cannot be repeated indefinitely, and if it plays out right, you can bask in a couple rounds of sheer terror as the PCs realize they're trapped in the middle of an entire hostile army.

Alternatively, if you don't want to get that tricky, just give the shamans magic items that block teleportation within a given radius, and have them spread throughout the army. The PCs try to teleport in and the spell fizzles. This is an obvious and elementary precaution in a world containing folks who can teleport.

Thanks

When the evil horde encamps, there will be "Anticipate Teleport" spells set up, as well as other spells, like simple Alarm spells and other warning type spells.... Anticipate Teleport, though, gives the evil horde a round (or three for the advanced version.) to prepare. Even one round is a huge difference, as it gets rid of surprise and allows the bad guys to ready an action.

And, they do have other flying creatures besides dire vultures and marrash (flying gnolls)...I could have them leading the high altitude flyers, as opposed to others that fly at lower altitudes for scouting and skirmishing.

[Aberzanzorax]

New Monster:

Dispelling swarm.


Go with something thematic...maybe bring in some vulturelike weirdness from whereever the spellweaver is from in your game (far realm).

Swarms are autohit, and they are a way to challenge high level pcs with en masse lower cr guys.

If the swarm also dispels magic (a very reasonable adaptation if evolving in a place with spellweavers), they can take out the flying hit and run guys.



Maybe electric clouds? There was a dispelling will o'wisp that ate magic in second edition (had a different name). A bunch of these of tiny or diminutive size would be reasonable.

EDIT: I think I was thinking of either Nishruu or Nyth from Monsters of Faerun (3rd ed).

I'd just take another swarm and give it electrical instead of physical damage and also allow for dispel magics when in contact.

[Nymrohd]

The spell that protects you from scry-teleporters while encamped does the job perfectly well on the march. Anticipate Teleportation is an emanation not a fixed point spell so your villain carries it with him.

The marrashi are reasonably fast and a wizard who tries to fireball an army that has a group of shades flying over it for support will die fast. And ofc you have to have a few wands of dispel magic lying around to ground flying spellcasters.

Your villain is closing in on http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../CrazyPrepared status!

[Aberzanzorax]

Other interesting options:

Check out Deadborn vultures in MM 5

Tempest and windghost from MM 2


and, ARRGH! I can't find it. There is a cloud creature that is thematic with illithids/mindflayers in SOME wotc product that flies way above the ground and I think can rain acid. If I'm remembering correctly, it would be perfect for your horde, but I can't find it right now.

I'll get back to you if I do, or maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about?

[Nymrohd]

Not with mindflayers, with kaorti. Fiend Folio skybleeder right?

[Aberzanzorax]

WOW you're good.

I just checked and that was exactly it!

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Aberzanzorax

Other interesting options:

Check out Deadborn vultures in MM 5

Tempest and windghost from MM 2


and, ARRGH! I can't find it. There is a cloud creature that is thematic with illithids/mindflayers in SOME wotc product that flies way above the ground and I think can rain acid. If I'm remembering correctly, it would be perfect for your horde, but I can't find it right now.

I'll get back to you if I do, or maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about?

MM5? I thought they stopped at 4?

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Nymrohd

Your villain is closing in on Crazy Prepared - Television Tropes & Idioms status!

I know, but I'm not very good at thinking on my feet at the table, so I like to prep these things as much as possible.

I think I have a pretty good idea of a good encounter for the players if (when?) they teleport into the enemy's encampment. It will be an interesting surprise for them, but it will also help me avoid a TPK, while still giving them a challenging encounter.

My initial thought is if the evil horde is encamped a day's march away from the last bastion of humanity in the region, they will likely take some pretty strong precautions to prevent their leadership from being attacked and it would likely be a TPK if I played it realistically.... Greater Anticipate Teleport, bad guys have readied actions and blitz the PCs as soon as they materialize.

[Aberzanzorax]

Originally Posted by NewJeffCT

MM5? I thought they stopped at 4?

And maybe they should have, though I actually like a lot of the monsters in 5 (though from what I've heard from others, I might be an anomaly here).


Deadborn vultures, if you don't want to buy the book just for them, are basically vultures that, when killed, turn into zombie vultures (they don't even fall out of the sky when this happens).

I like the idea of this for your army as vultures that feed on undead might just turn undead when they die.

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Aberzanzorax

And maybe they should have, though I actually like a lot of the monsters in 5 (though from what I've heard from others, I might be an anomaly here).


Deadborn vultures, if you don't want to buy the book just for them, are basically vultures that, when killed, turn into zombie vultures (they don't even fall out of the sky when this happens).

I like the idea of this for your army as vultures that feed on undead might just turn undead when they die.

Thanks - I have the other books up to MM5, but even Heroforge and Monsterforge for 3.5 only go up to MM4.

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Nymrohd

Not with mindflayers, with kaorti. Fiend Folio skybleeder right?

that looks interesting - the skybleeder.

[Nymrohd]

Originally Posted by NewJeffCT

that looks interesting - the skybleeder.

Creepy bastard indeed.

Truth be told if you want to go mad with amazing defenses, I suggest you look at Eberron's living spells. There are truly few things that cannot be done with living spells.

[The_Warlock]

Another thought...

Should a Fireball Barrage Team enter the fray, have one Gnoll Druid or Marrash Cleric with the Air Domain as the default "Commander" of the air forces.

He flies at mid-height of the air defense, preferably under invisibility, possibly with a non-detection item. He's worth it, he's the ace in the hole. (Actually, I take it back, Gnoll Blight Druid on his Undead Giant Eagle Companion - always flies in the 700' to 900' altitude range to oversee the total air defense.)

If a fireball assault begins (and by all means let one or two impact - it's a really good plan, and there should be some bombardment success), have him climb to roughly the height where the fireballs originate from and:

Control Winds

Transmutation [Air]
Level: Air 5, Drd 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 40 ft./level
Area: 40 ft./level radius cylinder 40 ft. high
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: No

You alter wind force in the area surrounding you. You can make the wind blow in a certain direction or manner, increase its strength, or decrease its strength. The new wind direction and strength persist until the spell ends or until you choose to alter your handiwork, which requires concentration. You may create an “eye” of calm air up to 80 feet in diameter at the center of the area if you so desire, and you may choose to limit the area to any cylindrical area less than your full limit.

Wind Direction: You may choose one of four basic wind patterns to function over the spell’s area.

• A downdraft blows from the center outward in equal strength in all directions.

• An updraft blows from the outer edges in toward the center in equal strength from all directions, veering upward before impinging on the eye in the center.

• A rotation causes the winds to circle the center in clockwise or counterclockwise fashion.

• A blast simply causes the winds to blow in one direction across the entire area from one side to the other.

Wind Strength: For every three caster levels, you can increase or decrease wind strength by one level. Each round on your turn, a creature in the wind must make a Fortitude save or suffer the effect of being in the windy area.

Strong winds (21+ mph) make sailing difficult.

A severe wind (31+ mph) causes minor ship and building damage.

A windstorm (51+ mph) drives most flying creatures from the skies, uproots small trees, knocks down light wooden structures, tears off roofs, and endangers ships.

Hurricane force winds (75+ mph) destroy wooden buildings, sometimes uproot even large trees, and cause most ships to founder.

A tornado (175+ mph) destroys all nonfortified buildings and often uproots large trees.


Welcome the single most devastating environmental spell under 6th level. Even at 9th level caster and only Windstorm, flying PCs are in for a rude surprise as they lose almost all ability to control their flight. If the Air shamans have a tasliman that ups their caster level (even if only briefly 1/day) to get up to Hurricane or Tornado...well, someone's gonna have a bad day.

Oh, and since it's not technically an attack, just altering the environment, it shouldn't break invisibility.

How's them apples?

PS: Did I forget to mention that while the PCs are messed with in the Windstorm, the Shadows on air patrol rush in, and being incorporeal should remain unaffected by the winds, making them even more brutal.

[The_Warlock]

Oh, and I forgot the follow-up:

If he makes a rotating windstorm, keeping a small (10' max) eye for his own safety, then drops about 60', and if he has another 5th level spell (assuming druid here, and not domain limited), he casts another control winds, offset so the eyes don't match, and spinning counter.

If telepathic communication is available, or maybe a flare, or what have you, he informs ground control. If someone has access to Blade Barrier, drop it or another deadly placed magical effect that would be unaffected by the winds.

Rotating PCs discover what it's like to be in a Salad Shooter (Another Popeil Product!).

[frankthedm]

Originally Posted by NewJeffCT

What I was concerned about was what is to prevent the PCs (or some wizards/sorcerers from the city), from just flying 800 feet above the army while they advance to siege the human city, and lobbing fireballs down on them until they're out of spells?

There really isn't. This is the situation where Fireball being long range becomes a problem imho.