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In our group's current [D&D3] campaign, my cleric has used three scrolls of dispel magic. All three times to absolutely no effect.
The first time (several adventures ago) our party's progress into the dungeon was blocked by a spell trap. I pulled out a dispel magic scroll but I rolled a low check (a natural 2, 3, or 4 or something). I sighed and pulled out my second scroll. I rolled a 20 with this check, but still didn't beat the caster level of the spell trap. Big sigh.
Then last night, again our progress was blocked by a spell trap. I pulled out a dispel magic scroll and rolled a middling check -- not high enough.
We Players rolled our eyes. One Player commented, "You might as well have just thrown 375gp at the trap."
Why are you even using a caster-lv dependent spell on a scroll? I thought it was common practice that expendables should best hold spells not dependent on caster lv or save dcs, to keep the cost down while retaining all/most of its efficacy.
If you had cast it yourself, it would have benefited from any caster-lv increasing effects your character may have like spell power, in addition to other abilities which enhance your dispelling prowess, such as assay resistance or elven spell lore.
Runerstar, you can write dispel magic scrolls at higher than the default level.
And I agree. Even casting them traditionally, our 3e group has had awful luck with the spell. It has a huge variation in effect.
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Runerstar, you can write dispel magic scrolls at higher than the default level.
I know - but it still jacks up the final price. Contrast this with a scroll/wand of say, enlarge person, which bestows the same effect regardless of whether it is cast at 1st lv or 20th lv (its duration of 1 minute should last through the entire fight, only problem is that it is easy prey for dispel magic).
So yeah, bottom line is that some spells are more suitable for making into expendables compared to other spells.
Well, in this case, the only difference between casting off a scroll and casting it personally is 1 level. Scroll = caster level 5, my cleric = caster level 6.
As a functional spell, dispel magic is better to have on a scroll -- it isn't something that's needed very often in an adventure. If my cleric prepares it each day, it'll usually get burned for a cure serious wounds instead of for actually dispelling something. It's like remove disease or restoration -- something not often needed on a daily basis, but something good to have on a scroll for when you do need it.
But at least remove disease and restoration will actually do their function when used, compared to the crap shoot that is dispel magic.
Well, in this case, the only difference between casting off a scroll and casting it personally is 1 level. Scroll = caster level 5, my cleric = caster level 6.
As a functional spell, dispel magic is better to have on a scroll -- it isn't something that's needed very often in an adventure. If my cleric prepares it each day, it'll usually get burned for a cure serious wounds instead of for actually dispelling something. It's like remove disease or restoration -- something not often needed on a daily basis, but something good to have on a scroll for when you do need it.
But at least remove disease and restoration will actually do their function when used, compared to the crap shoot that is dispel magic.
Bullgrit
The difference is that Dispel Magic can be a very useful combat spell. Any time you face off against magically buffed opponents, either targeted or area dispels (depending on what the apparent buffing is) can reshape the battle.
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The difference is that Dispel Magic can be a very useful combat spell. Any time you face off against magically buffed opponents, either targeted or area dispels (depending on what the apparent buffing is) can reshape the battle.
I can vouch for that as well. We use psionics and magic interchangeably, so the party psion has been able to easily dispel a lot of magic because a level 10 psion can dispel as a level 20 wizard just by using extra power points.
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The first time (several adventures ago) our party's progress into the dungeon was blocked by a spell trap. I pulled out a dispel magic scroll but I rolled a low check (a natural 2, 3, or 4 or something). I sighed and pulled out my second scroll. I rolled a 20 with this check, but still didn't beat the caster level of the spell trap. Big sigh.
Was that a natural 20? These two instances here just sound like a bad roll and an unbeatable trap - nothing to do with the scrolls themselves.
Quote:
Then last night, again our progress was blocked by a spell trap. I pulled out a dispel magic scroll and rolled a middling check -- not high enough.
Again, all in the roll, nothing to do with the scroll. As you said your scrolls are only 1 behind your current caster level, so you should change the thread title to "dispel magic sucks."
In my 3.x games my players used Dispel Magic to great effect. Lots of my monsters buffed themselves for combat so a targeted dispel often turned the tide of battle for the PCs.
Having been on both sides of flubbed and efficacious Dispel Magic castings, it is definitely one of the most Pass/Fail effects in the game.
I liked the way they handled it in Arcana Evolved: you also got to add your primary casting stat to the dispel check. Helped offset the poor rolls.
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you should change the thread title to "dispel magic sucks."
Yeah, but dispel magic doesn't cost 375gp to suck -- the scroll of it costs to suck. ;-)
Quote:
Any time you face off against magically buffed opponents, either targeted or area dispels (depending on what the apparent buffing is) can reshape the battle.
We rarely go against enemies with buff spells up. 1 time in 10? If that much.
I can vouch for that as well. We use psionics and magic interchangeably, so the party psion has been able to easily dispel a lot of magic because a level 10 psion can dispel as a level 20 wizard just by using extra power points.
Playing with the wildly broken version of psionic dispel, eh?
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Was that a natural 20? These two instances here just sound like a bad roll and an unbeatable trap - nothing to do with the scrolls themselves.
This exactly. If a natural 20 on the check isn't good enough then the DM is just using a crappy way of telling you to go away and return to this area when you level up.
We rarely go against enemies with buff spells up. 1 time in 10? If that much.
Same goes for me. In modules, it seems like almost every one devotes several encounters to setting up the BBEG so that he has time and information to buff himself. Scrying, listen checks, guards. Everyone else gets taken by surprise. So I get the impression from running modules that buffs are rare and hard to set up. Should I fork the thread?
One of the things I don't like about 3E is that so many magic items (scrolls, wands, potions, etc.) don't scale with the user. I would prefer that they did.
I realize that makes pricing the items difficult but they should have found a way. Maybe the items don't increase in price but you have to pay an XP cost to use them at higher caster level. I dunno, but they should have done something. Otherwise so many items/spells are near useless as magic items.
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We rarely go against enemies with buff spells up. 1 time in 10? If that much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noumenon
Same goes for me. In modules, it seems like almost every one devotes several encounters to setting up the BBEG so that he has time and information to buff himself. Scrying, listen checks, guards. Everyone else gets taken by surprise. So I get the impression from running modules that buffs are rare and hard to set up.
More than half the BBEGs we went against (7th level or higher) were capable of casting spells or using items. As a DM, I used this even more. Many times the characters would defeat the BBEG, but it would survive and escape. One of my favorite extended campaigns involved the group racing two previously defeated bad guys (who also hated each other) and their new minions to an artifact.
There are alot of good spells out there, and knowing that the enemy could use them too, my players became alot more effective and strategic.
Lastly, most every really potent magic item I gave out had to be pried from the cold dead fingers of a bad guy, who had used it against the characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noumenon
Should I fork the thread?
Probably, and can you fork this post as well?
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Last edited by Hereticus; 16th May 2009 at 05:06 PM..
One of the things I don't like about 3E is that so many magic items (scrolls, wands, potions, etc.) don't scale with the user. I would prefer that they did.
I realize that makes pricing the items difficult but they should have found a way. Maybe the items don't increase in price but you have to pay an XP cost to use them at higher caster level. I dunno, but they should have done something. Otherwise so many items/spells are near useless as magic items.
To avoid that, only allow the characters to get items off villains they defeat who can use the items.
And price won't matter if they are not for sale.
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