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Jack7, that's a really thorough and great response, but I don't know how much of it I can really use; this group is more like the A-Team, and less like Jack Bauer. The city in question, the PCs are total strangers in*, and aren't in long. They're chasing NPCs/heading on a journey, this is a stop and an opportunity to get a jump on the people who have been ambushing them. So what they can give the informant is limited.
I'm trying to work within the parameters of my group, really. Two players are real beer and pretzel types. One is more hardcore, but his character is just so aloof and focused on bringing the Avenger hammer down that he doesn't offer much in this circumstance. The final player is the Co-DM; I'm leaving in a few months, he's trying to take over the game, I'm trying to work within the confines of his existing story (and try to use his ideas in a way that actually work). This is all a fairly big railroad, but I'm trying to offer a little bit more windowdressing to the railroad, and make the trip look a little less monotonous. As I said, it has been a string of ambushes thus far - I want to give the players a few people to talk to. And as I said, I'm only with these guys for two months - so I want to move things along briskly.
If that is the case then you need to know how mobile the thief is willing to be. I'd suggest talking it over with the co-DM to see what his general views are about the thief.
If the thief is willing to be mobile (meaning he can move out when you do and can even work undercover himself or in disguise - might even become a tag-along "for-hire"), then my suggestions still apply, and are workable. If he is not and is tied to his city and geography then you need to convince the thief that he will be in a better situation when you leave than when he met you, meaning you still establish a relationship with him, but let the thief know that if he helps you then you will assist him take down and dismantle your possible mutual enemies and that he will profit thereby in some other way. (Such as taking over the framework, income sources, or at least some of the goods of the organization previously commanded and controlled by the enemies of your players.)
There is still advantage to be had, maybe even long term advantage for both parties, but the thief needs to be aware that in addition to security and profit advantages, there is a definite and constricted timeframe in which to move and act. So as the thief is made aware of this, so are the players (if they are paying attention).
But in any case to be properly turned he has to believe he will be better off helping your party than by helping the other party.
But if the thief is interested then since the operation needs to be undertaken quickly, get him (the thief) to make suggestions to the party, not just the other way around. After all he already is to some degree familiar with the enemy. He has the necessary information and intelligence which the party lacks. Meaning he can certainly at the very least assist with developing operational plans.
What the party needs to give the thief is assistance for developing an avenue for advantage and profit, more than they can initially offer, but assistance that only they can offer. If the party can make the thief see that, and if the timeframe can be met, then that may even work to the party's advantage. Because that means the thief is exposed to danger over a shorter period of working time, and may very well desire to profit more quickly than through an extended operation.
I'd even play up the angle of quick turn over as a negotiating point, if the thief is the kind of guy who likes quick and relatively uncomplicated transactions.
By the way, if I, or anyone else, did everything Jack Bauer does (much as I like the character) within a 24 hour period then they'd be dead.
So if I follow the thief is not likely to be tricked or intimidated due to the parties and his own tendencies/skills/background. Building on Jack's thoughts how about having the thief wanting the party to take out the next ambush group for his own reasons. Perhaps someone in that group made him look bad or he needs them out of the way for some reason. Pointing them in their direction could be a boon for him and the party. This does not mean he will let the party know he is using them. Just giving them some of what he does know to use the situation to his advantage.
Is there are level 6 warlock in the party? They have a utility power that forces any helpless creature to answer their questions. You might house-rule in a wand or a ritual scroll with that spell on it...
So if I follow the thief is not likely to be tricked or intimidated due to the parties and his own tendencies/skills/background. Building on Jack's thoughts how about having the thief wanting the party to take out the next ambush group for his own reasons. Perhaps someone in that group made him look bad or he needs them out of the way for some reason. Pointing them in their direction could be a boon for him and the party. This does not mean he will let the party know he is using them. Just giving them some of what he does know to use the situation to his advantage.
Hmm.
I can actually see it coming from the other end:
This thief stole from some very powerful people. So possibly, the heat is on him - and if he does this for the party, then he expects the heat to get removed from him, due to their connections to the people who he stole from.
How well developed is the thief as a character? Is there anything besides his own life that he would be willing to protect? If there is, can the PC's find out about it and use it effectively?
Every character has motivations and reasons for doing things. These rerasons need to be developed for discovery/exploitation by others in the campaign. It helps keep all situations from becoming simple applications of force.
Hmmm, maybe this is just what Jack7 was saying but a little less complicated... figure out an out for the thief so he could cover himself if he spills the beans. Either a way to physically escape, or some way he could deflect the blame on someone else. Like, he won't tell the PC's what they want to know, but he'll tell them about someone else who will tell them. Even if the other source might not be willing, if the PC's capture him or go talk to him, blame could be deflected.
The thief, being clever, could offer this solution to the party himself.
The thief would like to help, considering the alternative, but in fact he doesn't know for whom he is working. The job was set up by a third party, and he got his instructions through a blind drop of some kind (animal messenger, perhaps).
However, he is supposed to meet someone somewhere to deliver the goods, and he's not handing over anything to a bleeping talking squirrel... the client has agreed to meet him or at least send an emissary with the cash for the exchange.
Successful negotiation or threats will let the party set an ambush at the rendezvous point. Failure will have the same result, but the thief will betray the ambush at the last second.
No, he's all ready dropped off the payload a week ago, because the stolen weapon in question has been used against the PCs twice now. And in fact, the PCs learn about the thief's connection, becasue they stumble across someone who has something similar to the weapon in the first place. This person puts them in contact with the thief.
This may not require as many dice rolls as skill challenges.
But if I were the Thief, they'd scare me more than the sound of rolling dice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereticus
Perhaps if the party were to lead the Thief into believing they were going to sell his body and brain to an Aboleth, in exchange for the information it contained...
What level is the party?
If you don't like the Aboleth idea, then allow the Thief to watch another person get eaten by a Green Slime, and tell him he's next unless he talks.
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Last edited by Hereticus; 24th May 2009 at 01:31 PM..
It sounds like you want the PC's to do something specific, but haven't given them enough information for them to "choose" what you want them to do.
If this is the case, you're likely to have some disappointment. I don't want to suggest that you are railroading them... but, you want a specific result.
You have to make it clear that the thief will only respond to one type of action. Physical violence (overt-violence) will not work. Intimidation (covert-violence) will fail. The thief is too rich (or scared) to pay-off (although, I find this hard to believe, just play the "what will you do for a million GP game," and then the "WWYDFA hundred thousand GP game" and so forth...) Thieves are thieves because they want to get rich... or is it just the thrill of the theft! Perhaps the thief will respond to idea of protection.... you know, witness protection. The party will move the thief and his two girlfriends without the two women finding out about each other to the BIG CITY... oh boy!
Of course, if you really want to extract information from someone you should waterboard him...
Use Stalker0's Obsideon Skill Challenge system. Seriously. His rules work very well with the 4e's relatively minor spread between trained and untrained. Just make to lead in with a chat with the players that creative use of the skills, preferably building on each others actions, can indeed carry the day.
As others mentioned above, there are a number of reasons why the skilled thief would be willing to start answering questions. If he is that good, its a simple, albiet annoying, option to start over in a new town.
I would recommend playing up the option to expand the event oustide of the interogation.. having the PC's need to research the local guild to get enough information to frame someone else. Or take out whomever the Thief is scared of... something the thief may attempt to encourage as long as the idea/action cannot be traced back to him.
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"Squeely, we know you don't want to talk because you're afraid of reprisals. So, here's how it's going to go: You tell us everything and we make it look like someone else told us or we figure ou through magic. If you don't tell us everything you know, then we're going to make it real clear to anyone and everyone that it was YOU who gave us the information."
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