General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
I'll disagree. There's one thing a GM really should know before he beings - the rules of the game he's using. You don't need to be a complete master of every little rules detail and nuance, but you ought to be thoroughly familiar with what is possible and what isn't under the rules, both for your monsters and NPCs and for the PCs.
Simply put, a good GM is one that puts the enjoyment of the entire group, balanced between all the players and the GM, before ANYTHING else.
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Sit down with all the players and talk about the campaign. As was mentioned, outline your expectations for the campaign. If you want to give the players tons of freedom and expect them to be in the drivers seat, be up front and tell them that. OTOH, if you are running a more plot heavy campaign, you need to tell the players that too.
Create the party together. Don't tell the players, "Go and make a 7th level character and give me the PC's background." You wind up with an entire party of people that have absolutely no reason to get together other than they all have a big "P" stamped on their foreheads.
Have the group talk about things as a group. One thing I insist on is that every PC must have at least one meaningful connection to two other PC's. That way, you have the players come up with reasons why they are together. Have them build their backgrounds together and it makes things much simpler in the future.
As to the specific question of quest giving - again, this goes back to your first conversation with the players. Since they have come up with a group background, you know, or at least should know, what that group's motivations are. Play to those motivations. If the group is centered around some element, either threaten that element or reward it. Maybe this town that they are in is directly related to the backstory of the group. There, instant motivation. Maybe the group is more mercenary. Ok, pay them. Carrots work much better than sticks.
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Although saying "yes" will make you popular with players it may lead to a non-fun game. Don't be afraid to say "no" to preserve fun for everyone.
Before character creation premise what you want or what you are running. You are heroes/good, no evil PCs. This will primarily be an urban campaign.Heavy roleplaying and fleshed out backgrounds appreciated.
Not every battle needs to be climatic. Don't be afraid to let the PCs overmatch a few opponents.
Don't be afraid to kill the characters. If the players sense that you will not let their characters die, or that you will bail them out of every bad decision or won't allow for bad luck, then the game will suffer. Roleplaying is at its best when there is conflict and drama. There is little drama in the life of an invincible PC.
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Last edited by Gunton The Terrible; 28th May 2009 at 05:05 PM..
Reason: oh and spellcheck before posting
But if they decide to later swindle both parties and/or ambush and slaughter everyone the NPCs will take action. It is quite unrealistic to assume that everyone but the PCs is a moron and can be taken advantage of and/or killed with ease. Heroes yes, but all-powerful? Certainly not.
Indeed, however it's important to remember there's a difference between the PC's going on a massive bloodthirsty rampage and not doing what you want. I was more giving advice on the latter than the former.
If you want advice on the former, well, I'd advise talking with the players directly rather than handling it in game. That way you can ask if they want a bloodthirsty killfest like Doom...and decide whether or not you want to provide it.
Last edited by Bumbles; 28th May 2009 at 08:19 PM..
Although saying "yes" will make you popular with players it may lead to a non-fun game.
Another approach is "say yes, then add complication and consequences".
Quote:
There is little drama in the life of an invincible PC.
Which, of course, explains the success of characters like James Bond, Captain Kirk, the Batman, or the all-to-brief televisual life of Malcolm Reynolds.
There is little drama without consequence. Dying is only one of many consequences.
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If you avoid the classic GM mistakes then you're well on your way.
1. Railroading. This is making player choice irrelevant.
GM: You're in the wilderness. What direction do you want to travel?
Players: North.
GM: You can't, there's an impassible mountain range.
Players: East
GM: Army of invincible demons.
Players: West
GM: Impassible mountain range inhabited by invincible demons.
Players: South
GM: Congratulations, you find the adventure.
2. Playing favourites. This is favouring one player over the others. Giving him or her better treasure, a better station in life, more favourable NPC responses, etc.
3. Mary Sue GMPC. An NPC who travels with the party but is much more powerful than the PCs. All monsters are slain by the Mary Sue, all mysteries solved and so forth.
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If, for example, a Thieve's guild has stolen the Crown Jewels, you could have the local Duke call on the PCs to investigate. Or, you could have them blunder into the middle of another robbery - the thief they catch is a coward, and is willing to give them a hint that something bigger is up if the PCs let him escape with his life.
Do you guys really GM for groups of people where a murderous-PC-rampage is a real possibility?
Maybe it's just my group of players, but they're in the game to advance the story too. They're not above using violence and intimidation where it's appropriate of course, but a random burst of insanity where they slaughter a random NPC in cold blood is never really a danger for me. They want to experience the story that's written, and see/influence what happens next in the plot - and that would be tough if they murder people left and right.
Do you guys really GM for groups of people where a murderous-PC-rampage is a real possibility?
My players might destroy the entire civilization at level 1 if I allowed them to overrun NPCs. They have killed each other, assassinated innocent bystanders, cheated, lied, stolen, and generally roleplayed chaotic neutral/evil fairly well. The only thing that keeps the game from imploding is that they are level 4 and cannot yet defeat the Fiend-Sage of Rel Astra.
I am fine with this. However, it means I populate the game world with high level NPCs so that entire towns are not slaughtered during our first session.
My players might destroy the entire civilization at level 1 if I allowed them to overrun NPCs. They have killed each other, assassinated innocent bystanders, cheated, lied, stolen, and generally roleplayed chaotic neutral/evil fairly well. The only thing that keeps the game from imploding is that they are level 4 and cannot yet defeat the Fiend-Sage of Rel Astra.
Okay, I totally get where you are coming from. We have very different groups of players, and your's also sound fun. Just differently fun.
I think I'm more in PC's boat (hah!) with my group of players. Our folks play DnD in order to roleplay generally good guys, not psychopaths. Not placing a value judgment on either viewpoint of course. I just think as a DM I would get very easily frustrated with having to babysit my players lest they stab innocent civilians in the throat at random on the street.
Of course, I've also played with GMs who went on PC murder sprees.
Save or die roll=bad, m'kay?
Yes thank you for that example, this was another thing i wanted to bring up. At higher levels in 3.5 DnD Arcane magic is arguably the thing that makes and breaks combat. So then, how do i design mid-high level spellcasters to be a challenge but not (as you say) go on a PC murder spree.
I am under the impression that things like Finger of Death and Mordekainen's Disjunction are bad?
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Another approach is "say yes, then add complication and consequences".
I said "do not be afraid to say no." If you have to follow every request with a "yes, but.." then you missed the point.
Quote:
Which, of course, explains the success of characters like James Bond, Captain Kirk, the Batman, or the all-to-brief televisual life of Malcolm Reynolds.
There is little drama with consequence. Dying is only one of many consequences.
A character in a movie/TV show/comic book is designed to entertain the viewer/reader. They do not necessarily make good PCs. Imagine 5 James Bonds all vying for the Bond girl.
Dying is only one consequence, but do not remove it.
__________________ The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. - Sun Tzu
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
If you would like to see all of the DMing advice ever given on Enworld, it's at DMing Advice (Links fixed July 20, 2008!) . You can pick the thread titles that interest you, and read for days and days like I did, and you will still be coming back here going "How the heck do I deal with this? Is this really how D&D works?" So don't overdo the prep -- just DM, and then improve one thing every session.
1) For the quest-introducer, it doesn't need to be higher level than the PC's. Anyone can introduce a quest -- a parent with a missing child, townsfolk threatened by monsters, etc. -- it doesn't have to be Elminster. Quests can also be introduced by the "in media res" method -- starting the story in the middle, with the PC's already in a party together and in a fight -- or by an item (hey, look at this scroll I found!).
1a) Power isn't level. An NPC can be powerful for political, economic, or social reasons, without having a high level. For example, the guy who runs the only magic shop in my campaign is mid-level. However, the people who trade with him are adventurers and retired mages and clerics. Messing with him is self-evidently a bad idea, not because he's uber powerful, but because the guy who gave him the Staff of Buttkicking to sell is going to be very mad at YOU if he doesn't get the money. Same goes for militia (police), minor manor holders or merchants, etc.
1b) The reason to not attack a random NPC shouldn't be because the PC's are weaklings. It should be because the PC's are heroes -- or failing that, because they aren't pyschopaths and treat NPC's as if they were people, or failing that, because they know the campaign is dynamic and killing the manor lord will bring down outlawry (inability to get any help from NPC's) and the full force of the law and bounty hunters down on them. That is -- have a campaign world and use it as a real world. It's more fun and emersive for the players than "everybody is too tough to fight". Keep the PC's special, but not too special -- they still have to live with the consequences of their actions.
2) I'd start the PC's at first level, not 7th. Especially if the players are also inexperienced, it gives you all a chance to learn the game -- and the PC's place in the game world -- rather than jumping in with too much complexity and power all at once. Start at 1st level, and you'll appreciate 3rd level, and amaze at the power of 7th . . . (in editions predating 4e, at least).
I just think as a DM I would get very easily frustrated with having to babysit my players lest they stab innocent civilians in the throat at random on the street.
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