General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Ever since I saw the cover for PH3 with the minotaur as a player race I was guessing Dragonlance. I am stoked by this (do kind of wish for Dark Sun still but we can't have everything. Loved playing Dragonlance as a child)
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Why? Why does a new race or class belong in a hardcover rulebook? If you aren't a D&DI subscriber, but want the assassin or revenant, then just up for one month and get that issue.
I can understand wanting to have all the cool new crunchy stuff . . . but that's why I've always subscribed to Dragon both in print and online.
Yeah, in retrospect, this is just lingering resentment from the "minis come with exclusive feats and powers!" thing that was trotted out a while ago.
This just makes buying books less useful....which might be part of the idea.
It's not bad, it's just different, and that shouldn't worry me as much as it did when I first read it.
Honestly with the advent of DDI I am needing my books less and less. I am at the point now where just having a extremely easy to read/look up rule booklet and then DDI I be set.
Books themselves are becoming more just a side thing for the fun of reading. I don't actually use them for the actual gaming anymore.
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No. And there are at least three obvious shadow strikers (the other two being ninja and shadowdancer), so dropping one of them into a D&Di exclusive isn't a problem with future development, either.
Explain to me why ninjas aren't just assassins with eastern-themed fluff.
It may just be me, but I find classes that base their entire existence on Western ideas of orientalism dull and boring. Why make a samurai when, as OotS points out, a paladin (or fighter) with the appropriate fluff works just as well?
Explain to me why ninjas aren't just assassins with eastern-themed fluff.
It may just be me, but I find classes that base their entire existence on Western ideas of orientalism dull and boring. Why make a samurai when, as OotS points out, a paladin (or fighter) with the appropriate fluff works just as well?
Explain to me why western assassins aren't just ninjas with western fluff?
We have, at the moment, a game with something like eight different types of mechanically distinct swords, including even the khopesh, and no katana. I'm not sure that orientalism is really what we should worry about.
Explain to me why ninjas aren't just assassins with eastern-themed fluff.
Archetype.
"Assassin" conjures up the image of the gentleman-mercenary, the dapper intellectual, the brilliant infiltrator well-dressed in black clothes who charges a high premium for his services in eliminating the wealthy and powerful. No lock can keep him out, and no guards will hear him coming. He slays kings.
"Ninja" conjures up the image of the illusionist-murderer, a creature of the night and magic, whose athletic prowess defines her skill, speed, and stealth, and whose supernatural powers render her a fearsome bogey, a night-terror for all who hear of those she slays in their sleep.
I'm really looking forward to the Psion preview. Imho, no D&D edition is complete without psionics, so it's about time!
Hmm. I would say, "No D&D edition has ever jumped the shark before psionics was released." 4th edition may be cutting it pretty close though if they are waiting till next year to release psionics.
'Possibilities beyond level 30', however, seriously sends shivers down my spine. I'm not even comfortable with the epic tier as is and still undecided if I'm really interested in ever playing in that level range. Now levels beyond 30? I don't think so. That would be a terrible idea.
It's only a panel at Gencon, it's not "up and coming content"...
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I'm a little surprised to see people not wanting exclusive DDI content. I mean, I think preview content is okay, but what I really want to get out of my DDI subscription is exclusive stuff that I'm not just going to buy again in book form. I'm okay with previews, as long as they never cut into the quantity of new and exclusive material.
The fact that they had to specifically call out the assassin and revenant as 'exclusive' made me a little sick, as I'd expect/want all DDI material to be exclusive, and I don't feel that DDI-only races and classes should be rare enough to raise a clamor. I mean, the coolness of a particular race or class should definitely be worth talking about, but not the 'exclusiveness' aspect.
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I agree. I'm excited about exclusive ddi content. Gives me a reason to stay subscribed -- and I'll tell you, if you're a publisher, the constant and predictable income stream from a subscriber is far preferable to a maybe-I'll-buy-it-this-time book purchaser.
Yeah, in retrospect, this is just lingering resentment from the "minis come with exclusive feats and powers!" thing that was trotted out a while ago.
This just makes buying books less useful....which might be part of the idea.
It's not bad, it's just different, and that shouldn't worry me as much as it did when I first read it.
FWIW, I feel the same way about the "exclusive" content, and would feel exactly the same way if the *books* had "exclusive" stuff not available in other formats. I just do not get the idea of limiting access to material based on the distribution medium.
Your note about making books less useful is correct-- but I really hope that is *not* "the idea." Some of us still prefer print. I would think the Dungeon/Dragon outcry last year would have driven that point home...
Yeah, in retrospect, this is just lingering resentment from the "minis come with exclusive feats and powers!" thing that was trotted out a while ago.
This just makes buying books less useful....which might be part of the idea.
It's not bad, it's just different, and that shouldn't worry me as much as it did when I first read it.
Heh, I don't even have a problem with the powers exclusive to the Player's Handbook Heroes line of miniatures. What's the big deal?
And how does this make the books less useful? My books are unchanged with these exclusive releases.
__________________ Brian Zuber
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Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
If they don't get the same amount of support the book races & classes get, as far as new feats/powers go, eventually they'll fall behind to the point where they're completely underpowered. The Tiefling Fighter support from MP is a good example of what I mean - without the support of MP, Tiefling Fighters would still be underpowered compared to, say, an Elven Fighter.
What?!?! Having an article with new feats and powers geared towards a particular class or race doesn't make that class or race more or less powerful or balanced, it just gives players more options.
I'd love to see followup articles on the revenant and assassin, but I don't see how the lack of such would make this new class and race underpowered.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
What?!?! Having an article with new feats and powers geared towards a particular class or race doesn't make that class or race more or less powerful or balanced, it just gives players more options.
I'd love to see followup articles on the revenant and assassin, but I don't see how the lack of such would make this new class and race underpowered.
It wouldn't make the race or class underpowered. Not to put words into his mouth, but what he's probably talking about is this: some race/class combinations are better suited for one another than others. Some people believe that WotC tries to ameliorate this by making extra strong feats to accomodate the unsuitable combinations. For example, tiefling and fighter is a weak combination, and WotC has made feats specifically for tieflings who are fighters. These are unlikely to exist in the original article (and if they do they definitely won't cover unpublished classes), which means that over time we'll have more and more combinations for these races and classes that just don't quite work.
Personally, I'm not sure that WotC actually tries to power up race/class combinations that don't work through feat choices. They create these for almost every race/class combination in the game, after all.
I'm a little surprised to see people not wanting exclusive DDI content.
Though I've since reconciled it, my initial thoughts were this:
"D&D is a game where you read books and use your imagination. Exclusive content to non-book areas of distribution is a sad little money-grab by a company who knows how compulsive the collector's instinct is in its player base: WotC wants people to buy things they will never get full use out of just to be complete."
That's reactionary...even for me.
Truth is, anyone who bought the first three books owns more D&D material than they might use in a year of playing, so the collector's instinct, while strong, is pretty silly for D&D: you won't use most of what you get. Also, WotC is serious about making DDI a pillar of distribution (you know, subscriber's fees are easier to cope with than potential book sales). Dungeon and Dragon both had exclusive content that was officially sanctioned back in their Paizo days (and still do), so it's not even like this is new, really. It's like a Dungeon article: "New class! Woot!"
I would not be surprise if, as 4e goes on, they start relying more and more on DDI: it is, after all, more complete. Collectors would be better off spending $10/month than $30/month on books.
So how does an assassin work in 4E, anyway? Is assassination a Daily power that kills the target... until it makes its saving throw?
I have a feeling it will probably be a shadow striker/controller mix, lots of quick strikes, status-ailments (weaken, stun, unconscious) and jumping into/out of shadows...
Personally, I'm waiting to see how much different it will be from avengers and rogues (both of which fill the "assassin" niche nicely).
An assassin player class may also be a bit too controversial for a book aimed in part at young gamers. I don't know the ddi terms of agreement but I assume the average subscriber is somewhat older.
At any rate, the books' default assumption so far is that PCs are the good guys.
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Maybe calling out this type of exclusive content is a signal of future trends?
I do want exclusive content. I also like the previews, even if I do not want it to be the bulk of content. The beta stuff I like, even if I have not done much to with any of it yet, as in feedback.
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