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As for Paldemar, what other things can I do to get him involved early? I had Kalarel mentioned many times early on in H1. Also, I made Ninaran his wife to raise the stakes between him and the PCs.
Hmmm... If the PCs aren't there yet, one possible way to do so is to have him still be in the Seven-Pillared Hall, operating his network. He might encounter them early on, this way... The PCs could encourage him to set his plan in further motion, and that's that.
I dunno. This one, I have not given more thought to. I ran it mostly as-is for the first half of the adventure...
I have a notepad file on my computer called "Further Adventures and Ties." Any time I have an idea I want to flesh out for suture use, I note it in there. At some point early this year, I wrote "Sprinkle dream hook through H2." I can't remember why I wanted to do that... I'd better go back to H3 and see if I can refresh that memory!
I've been driving my Wizard player crazy with continued mentions of "Find the Pyramid. Find Karavakos!" throughout H1 and now into H2.
By the time we get to H3, he's going to be chomping at the bit to get to him!
That reminds me, my Warlock and Bard characters need to start getting these dreams too, I think...
__________________ DM of Adventure Path Story Hour (now in Thunderspire Labyrinth!): Ryam Plays Dice - updated 8th June 09 (campaign on indefinite hiatus).
Player in Swordlands Story Hour: Interview with a Fey - updated 15th June 09. News just in - this campaign may be restarting in the near future! Watch this space!
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I've done a small amount of groundwork (as noted above) and also linked H1 to H3. I was interested in seeing what other people did to link everything.
Ah, okay. I was tempted to not use H3 in the first place. But here's what I had planned:
Karakavos was a powerful disciple of Orcus, and he had quite a bit of power from other sources. However, he messed up big time, and got himself locked in the Pyramid. He's got quite a bit of lore in that pyramid too, because he's discovered a few secrets from the entities of Vecna.
Orcus cultists call him the "Chained Prophet". He can only be contacted through a ritual cast on a rift to the Shadowfell. This was part of the reason for Kalarel's being in KotS; he was conversing with Karakovos; Karakavos has told Orcus cultists that he knows the True Name of the Raven Queen (he doesn't). Thus, they're trying to free him.
(I shamelessly borrowed the above ideas from Alleynbard; Alleynbard went so far as to actually make Kalarel a tiefling descendant of Karakavos).
Paldemar was seeking power to learn the secret of the Pyramid's location from Vecna; Vecna, being the God of Secrets, would know, of course! Kalarel was Paldemar's apprentice, and in correspondence with him regularly. Paldemar wanted to topple the Mages and use his power to claim the Vale, not just because he's a power hungry guy, but because Kalarel was supposed to open the rift, Paldemar was going to secure the vale so that forces could gather and exit the rift without threat.
I had changed up Thunderspire significantly (and had no intentions of using the Duergar). In the Feywild, Thunderspire is the seat of the Bitter Conclave on Gilded Granite, a court of various mountain/underground fey. The Court had a running bet to see who could destroy the Seven Pillars Hall. Why? Because it was a bet. One had been manipulating Paldemar, coaxing him and helping him facilitating his plans, because he was that councilfey's horse in the race.
This Fey, a Satyr known as Cliff Strider, also entered a deal with Kalarel, since K was Paldemar's apprentice. Kalarel wanted a guardian who was not undead in nature. Just in case he got jumped by some divinely powered entities, or in case some bigger badder undead came along, he wanted an ace in the hole unrelated to the grave. So he asked Cliff Strider for one of their servants. In exchange, Cliff Strider wanted power. Inside the depths of the Shadowfell Keep, a semi-powerful fey was inprisoned. Kalarel was to conduct a ritual that would allow Cliff Strider to syphon power from the imprisoned fey, making Cliff Strider stronger.
The reason I did that last part was because I had a Fey Warlock PC. The hook that got this PC in the adventure was to free the entity trapped in the Keep; the entity was a powerful vassal of his Patron, the one he had made the Warlock Pact with. Well, after he had freed the faerie, he asked her for a favor. In return, she asked him to absolve the insult Cliff Strider had given her by sipping from her power.
As an added wrinkle, Ninaran was tangled in this web. Cliff Strider has Ninaran's daughter under an enchantment; she is "his". Kalarel and Paldemar knew this. So they exploited Ninaran, telling her that they would help her free her daughter, if she played spy and mercenary for them. Ninaran couldn't take on Cliff Strider by herself, she had no "in" whatsoever, so she was desperate. The pair had no intention of following up on it. The PCs were planning on saving Ninaran's daughter.
Unfortunately, I had to leave the campaign just after finishing KotS. I handed it to another DM. I had further plans for Thunderspire; two of my PCs were strongly tied to Melora (a cleric and a druid/invoker), so I had Paldemar also syphoning strength from the primal spirit of the mountain; the spirit was providing him with the mojo to do his take-over. By syphoning power from the mountain spirit, he was weakening the spirit; this in turn was creating a hole that the Far Realms was seeping into, and infecting the Mountain Spirit. Thus, Melora was steering her servants to stop this before it got too much.
Naturally, I wanted to deviate from the module and turn it into dungeoncrawling + faerie politics + Far Realms freakiness.
Just FYI, H3 is kind of a slog. I was very excited about it before we started running it, but honestly it's a series of death-traps. Everything in the dungeon tries to kill you at some point, and there's no "town" to retreat to.
I'm a little disappointed in it, to be honest, and think it could use some serious work.
Just FYI, H3 is kind of a slog. I was very excited about it before we started running it, but honestly it's a series of death-traps. Everything in the dungeon tries to kill you at some point, and there's no "town" to retreat to.
I'm a little disappointed in it, to be honest, and think it could use some serious work.
-O
I disagree. My players used a little diplomacy here and there, and had a pretty good time. I admit, I modified some things slightly, but the pieces were already there for a great adventure. It's only a slog if your players attack everything on sight, or if the DM purposely runs it that way.
I disagree. My players used a little diplomacy here and there, and had a pretty good time. I admit, I modified some things slightly, but the pieces were already there for a great adventure. It's only a slog if your players attack everything on sight, or if the DM purposely runs it that way.
They do have itchy trigger-fingers. But really, as written, even the section on Diplomacy means they'll end up fighting most everything, eventually.
* The plant guys will talk, but then send the PCs off on dangerous missions before trying to implant a seed into them, likely prompting a fight.
* The Brigands will negotiate, but turn on the PCs at opportune moments
* The Foulspawn will pretend to be nice, but burn the PCs alive while they sleep
* There's no negotiating with Karavakos or most of the weird semi-random encounters.
* Most things attack on sight and don't surrender, leaving little opportunity for negotiation
* Even the rooms are insanely hostile
I agree that there are pieces there for a potentially great adventure; I'm warning DM Magic that he'll need to put some serious effort into adding room for interesting, non-aggressive interaction ahead of time. A little mini-town in the Pyramid somewhere, with actual friendly NPCs, would go a long way, for instance. I did not add something like this, but in retrospect wish I would have. It would have gone a long way towards making the adventure better.
As an aside, I've loved having the Head of Vyrellis along. Without her, the NPC interaction above Level 1 would be even tinier.
I agree that there are pieces there for a potentially great adventure; I'm warning DM Magic that he'll need to put some serious effort into adding room for interesting, non-aggressive interaction ahead of time. A little mini-town in the Pyramid somewhere, with actual friendly NPCs, would go a long way, for instance. I did not add something like this, but in retrospect wish I would have. It would have gone a long way towards making the adventure better.
I'm not sure who had the idea, but:
Instead of making H3 just a straight, inescapable dungeon, take parts of H3 and place it in the real world. You're still running the adventure, but the PCs don't get into the pyramid (Which consists of say, level 3 and parts of level 2) for a while. Maybe they need to collect a few keys, etc.
Additionally, as opposed to a mini-town? How I'd handle that is a merchant of supernatural nature. One whose entire "store" he carries with him. Maybe some sort of merchant from Sigil or some other planar place, who's stuck but has been trading with all the groups inside. He's non-violent, but maybe threatening enough by nature to not be worth tangling with (A djinn of some kind?). So instead of a mini-town, you get an item shop close to the end boss (to put it in video game terms).
They do have itchy trigger-fingers. But really, as written, even the section on Diplomacy means they'll end up fighting most everything, eventually.
* The plant guys will talk, but then send the PCs off on dangerous missions before trying to implant a seed into them, likely prompting a fight.
* The Brigands will negotiate, but turn on the PCs at opportune moments
* The Foulspawn will pretend to be nice, but burn the PCs alive while they sleep
* There's no negotiating with Karavakos or most of the weird semi-random encounters.
* Most things attack on sight and don't surrender, leaving little opportunity for negotiation
* Even the rooms are insanely hostile
I agree that there are pieces there for a potentially great adventure; I'm warning DM Magic that he'll need to put some serious effort into adding room for interesting, non-aggressive interaction ahead of time. A little mini-town in the Pyramid somewhere, with actual friendly NPCs, would go a long way, for instance. I did not add something like this, but in retrospect wish I would have. It would have gone a long way towards making the adventure better.
As an aside, I've loved having the Head of Vyrellis along. Without her, the NPC interaction above Level 1 would be even tinier.
-O
I reskinned the Head of Vyrellis as the prison "Warden" (think Guilty Spark from the Halo games). My players allied with the Arboreans, as expected. However, when the seed thing came up, they succeeded in talking their way out of it (with a skill challenge). They also had a brief alliance with the Flameskull in the Hall of Mirrors after they defeated his buddies. Then, they talked their way through the frost elves and convinced the dragon to give up the amethyst (a memory module for the warden) with another successful skill challenge. That, plus another tense negotiation in an encounter I added on level one, and they did as much talking as they did fighting, if not more (the warden let them out after they retrieved the final gem from the dragon).
Please keep in mind - I am absolutely not saying that the only way PoS works is as a hack-n-slash slog. I do think that's the way it will tend to play out as-written, and I absolutely think that's how it will probably end up, absent some DM modifications or a peculiarly chatty party. DMs planning to run it, like DM Magic might, should just take note. That's all.
Thanks for all the tips, folks! I'm going to use Obryn's idea of putting Paldemar in the Seven-Pillared Hall early. Also, looking ahead to H3, I like some of the things I've seen here.
On a final note, what kind of support has H2 received by Wizards of the Coast? Errata? Dungeon or Dragon articles?
Thanks for all the tips, folks! I'm going to use Obryn's idea of putting Paldemar in the Seven-Pillared Hall early. Also, looking ahead to H3, I like some of the things I've seen here.
He could be there to visit the new-comers (in the typical disguise, trying to determine their goals or if they are a threat), or have an argument with the Mage that asks the players to investigate him.
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I was tempted to not use H3 in the first place. But here's what I had planned:
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