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I'm continuing my D&D campaign that began with Keep on the Shadowfell. Next up is Thunderspire Labyrinth! I was hoping that DM's who have already run this adventure might have some advice. Specifically, problem encounters, strange NPC interactions, loose plots never explained or tied up, and of course, connecting it with Pyramid of Shadows (that's a very important one, as I'd like to lay groundwork leading up to it early on).
Additionally, errata and web enhancements are a must (both official and unofficial), as are links to campaign logs, in-depth reviews, or just about anything else of value.
Tying the adventure to Shadowfell Keep was primarily through the slavers background and the missing slaves from the Nentir Vale area. My party was interested in the Ogre enforcer, vaguely in the wizards, and had a lot of fun beating up on the Duergar. The battles in the Horned Hold are really well done. The boss battles are pretty tough. I dropped all the vecna stuff completely. Good gaming!
My personal impression is that spreading the slaves through the various places is very annoying. The "Sorry, your princess is in another castle" circumstance. So creating different reasons why they should go where they want is up to you.
That, and connecting TL to PoS, I was doing, by tieing KotS to TL and PoS very firmly. If you didn't do the groundwork there, not sure.
(1) The duergar, as they appear in the module itself, are bastards. They are way too tough for their level, and their resistances can basically neuter most parties, no problem. I strongly suggest either using the stats straight from MM2, or downloading the MM2 stats from DDI and substituting them. Otherwise, those fights will get grindy as all hell. Briefly: Their resistances drop from 10 to 5, and the immunity from illusions disappears. Also, their defenses are reduced by 1 or 2 across the board.
Also, duergar theurges are a bastard's bastard. Their bursts are very, very tough, and your PCs could easily end up both prone and blind for a lot of the fights.
(2) Try to get a lot of mileage out of drama in the Seven-Pillared Hall. For example, if your players anger the duergar enough, they might decide to do something like ... well, burn down the inn, maybe.
(3) Paldemar, much like Kalarel, doesn't show up much until the end. Try and get him more involved, with messengers and the like. If he burns down the inn, so much the better!!
(4) There are two danger spots that could easily TPK your party. The first is the Chamber of Eyes. It's so very easy to turn this from a few normal encounters into a big, massive, overwhelming encounter. Watch it closely, and if it looks like a TPK is imminent, consider capturing the PCs rather than killing them. They are slavers, after all.
(5) The second is the Citadel. Again, it can turn from a few manageable encounters into a gargantuan and insanely deadly encounter very, very fast. The chieftan dude is pretty tough, as is his Theurge buddy. My party ended up barricading themselves in one of the citadels... The duergar tried to smoke them out, so they escaped out one of the chimneys over to the building where the prisoners were kept.
Be especially wary of fights on those bridges - it's a looong way down. A ranger in my party fell to his death there.
(6) The Dungeon article with a few extra encounters & quests is awesome, but they give major quest XP for what should be minor quests. Adjust accordingly. Also, troglodytes are horrible, grindy foes if your party is full of melee-ers.
(7) Vardrun is an excellent NPC. Play up the crazy. He's still involved in my game.
I hope those help! I'll post more if I think of it!
I highly recommend either NOT using the slavers hook, or only using it to get them there and using other hooks to move them through the different sections. I went with the full-on slaver hook and am regretting it, as Rechan said "Sorry, your princess is in another castle".
As for hooking it to Pyramid of Shadows, I'm using Paldemar and my party mage to seed that, with the provided dreams of "a place of great power", etc. The Pyramid is going to pose it's own problems, based on it's "you're locked in until you finish" nature and the complaints I've read in other threads about it's lacking in lots of areas. But that's another story.
Thunderspire has been a lot of fun for my group so far, regardless of my leading them by the hand chasing after the slaves.
__________________ "I am the soul of honor, kindness, mercy, and goodness. Trust me in all things." Corwin to Dara, The Guns of Avalon by Roger Zelazny
We had a few memorable encounter so far in Thunderspire, thanks to me pulling a few encounters together. The party consists of only 4 characters, but I don't adjust most encounters, so they advance faster and already exceed the expected level for the pyramid, so combining encounters was a good way to keep it exciting. Of course, it leads to "15 minute adventuring days" when the entire party has to blow their daily power to beat to 5th level encounters at once.
If you want to get a taste on that, consider reorganizing the defenses in the Duergar stronghold or combine encounters - wthout overdoing it. Don't combine two full encounters into one unless the party is indeed higher level then suggested.
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Here's a seconding the "watch out for the Duergar Theurges," as they are amazingly nasty. Also, if you need to scale up encounters for a larger party, avoid tossing in a Beholder Gauth with Murkelmor. It will end...badly.
__________________ The Evil DM's Motto:
"I don't kill characters. A dead character can't suffer any more...."
Here's a seconding the "watch out for the Duergar Theurges," as they are amazingly nasty.
Yeah, and as a side-note, if you need to buff up an encounter for a larger party size, resist the temptation to add another Theurge to an encounter group... That is a horrible idea, unless you want your players to scream in frustration at being both blind and prone most every round.
I'm continuing my D&D campaign that began with Keep on the Shadowfell. Next up is Thunderspire Labyrinth! I was hoping that DM's who have already run this adventure might have some advice. Specifically, problem encounters, strange NPC interactions, loose plots never explained or tied up, and of course, connecting it with Pyramid of Shadows (that's a very important one, as I'd like to lay groundwork leading up to it early on).
I tied Kalarel to Paldemar in the first adventure of Thunderspire via a note. I think the PCs forgot the unknown mages name, but i'll remind them soon enough. Paldemar was looking for Kalarel's help in finding a mystical place called The Pyramid of Shadows. I'm also stealing some ideas from Lostsoul and adding a shrine of Torog (much worse than the Chamber of Eyes) in the cisterns beneath the city.
The new Dragon web article has some awesome, awesome fell taints to drop in there, along with oodles of insects. I also drew my rendition of the Deep Stair, you can print it for your players if you like. I'm no great artist but it turned out pretty good.
__________________ Pablo El Vagabundo
"Mercy!? You want MERCY? I'M CHAOTIC NEUTRAL!!!" One of my rituals is soon to be published in Goodman Games's Book of Rituals... Yey...
I highly recommend either NOT using the slavers hook, or only using it to get them there and using other hooks to move them through the different sections. I went with the full-on slaver hook and am regretting it, as Rechan said "Sorry, your princess is in another castle".
I used the slavers hook (as well as Gendar's cask) but the slaves were friends of theirs stolen from Winterhaven. My plan is to have the PCs rescue them in stages, so yes, Salvana Wrafton will be found in the Chamber of Eyes, but sadly, Sister Linora has already been sold to the duergar.
(snip) I also drew my rendition of the Deep Stair, you can print it for your players if you like. I'm no great artist but it turned out pretty good. (snip)
Hehe... maybe you are no artist but that is a marvellously evocative picture. Consider that yoinked... with thanks!
My personal impression is that spreading the slaves through the various places is very annoying. The "Sorry, your princess is in another castle" circumstance. So creating different reasons why they should go where they want is up to you.
The PCs have a personal vendetta against Krand, which was seeded throughout H1 by me. What ways do you suggest I connect the encounter areas in Thunderspire beyond the Bloodreavers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechan
That, and connecting TL to PoS, I was doing, by tieing KotS to TL and PoS very firmly. If you didn't do the groundwork there, not sure.
I've done a small amount of groundwork (as noted above) and also linked H1 to H3. I was interested in seeing what other people did to link everything.
Thanks for all the help! I'll probably do the same thing I did for H1 -- compare the monsters as listed to the way they are in the Monster Manual. There were plenty of small discrepancies that were fixed by doing this (though nothing game breaking).
As for Paldemar, what other things can I do to get him involved early? I had Kalarel mentioned many times early on in H1. Also, I made Ninaran his wife to raise the stakes between him and the PCs.
I highly recommend either NOT using the slavers hook, or only using it to get them there and using other hooks to move them through the different sections. I went with the full-on slaver hook and am regretting it, as Rechan said "Sorry, your princess is in another castle".
I linked the PCs to Krand to get them to Thunderspire -- I'm hoping inspiration will hit and show me a sweet way to link the other encounters!
At the Dragon Burial Tomb in H1, they found a mirror that detects as magic, but they've been unable to identify it. Carved into the frame are many iterations and representations of the numeral seven: seven people standing in a row, seven stars, seven perpendicular lines, stairs with seven steps, etc. A Knowledge check told them the Mages of Saruun could identify it.
I'm hoping this item might be a good start for linking those encounter areas!
Quote:
Originally Posted by beverson
As for hooking it to Pyramid of Shadows, I'm using Paldemar and my party mage to seed that, with the provided dreams of "a place of great power", etc.
I have a notepad file on my computer called "Further Adventures and Ties." Any time I have an idea I want to flesh out for suture use, I note it in there. At some point early this year, I wrote "Sprinkle dream hook through H2." I can't remember why I wanted to do that... I'd better go back to H3 and see if I can refresh that memory!
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