General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Most of the companies that I would by 4th Edition products from without question have decided not to jump into the market . . . Green Ronin and Malhavoc at the top of the list.
Big ole ditto.
I can fully understand why Green Ronin didn't. After all, they have Mutants and Masterminds, A Game of Thrones, and a ton of other stuff.
Malhaovk seemed to be out of the RPG business and then came back in with an interesting model that does nothing for me personally. Which is a shame because I enjoyed the hell out of Ptolus and other products.
Other than WotC, Goodman is pretty much the only print 4E adventure game in town right now, aren't they?
Expeditious Retreat Press has a series called "Lands of Darkness" that are basically location based adventures. I haven't picked one up yet to speak to the actual product, but I have been very satisfied with them before.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
I ...but as Pathfinder brings in new converts to the 3.5 system, and IF it's not a problem to convert between 3.5 and Pathfinder, it'll all be good.
Now, I haven't followed the Pathfinder development closely. However, I was surprised when I saw the Free RPG Day Pathfinder Bonus Bestiary was all 3.5 monsters converted to the Pathfinder system.
This doesn't bode too well for "easily converted." Maybe it is easy work and they are just saving labor. I admit, it was still a surprise.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
Expeditious Retreat Press has a series called "Lands of Darkness" that are basically location based adventures. I haven't picked one up yet to speak to the actual product, but I have been very satisfied with them before.
You speak to your books?
__________________
355 hours played
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 21th level Musings of an Epic Virgin
Now, I haven't followed the Pathfinder development closely. However, I was surprised when I saw the Free RPG Day Pathfinder Bonus Bestiary was all 3.5 monsters converted to the Pathfinder system.
This doesn't bode too well for "easily converted." Maybe it is easy work and they are just saving labor. I admit, it was still a surprise.
The monsters in the Bonus Bestiary are, essentially, the "most important' 3.5 monsters we did not have room to fit into the Bestiary, which contains a ton of 3.5 monsters. A lot of these creatures have new or refined abilities, but in general you can use the old versions with the new system without much trouble.
After the OGL 3E 3pp product bloat a lot of people are wary to ever buy the non-Wotc stuff. Sadly this sentiment seems to have carried over to 4E, it may take some time until tje market regains faith in 3pp products. ( Even though some of them are very good, the prejudice is still there )
I think that is a very inaccurate statement.
I have heard quite a few 3PPs state that their 4E sales were very disappointing, after having been very successful in the 3E market.
Yeah, there was a bloat and it had its impacts. Not everything was sunshine and ice cream. But to call the 4E 3PP flop a carryover claims that it is just more of the same and nothing could be farther from the truth.
The prejudice is still there. But a lot of 3E stuff sold extremely well because the prejudice didn't take out the whole market. With 4E, it is very different.
__________________ It was one of those nights when you turn out the lights, and everything comes into view
The combat system should be based on the world design. The world design should not be based on the combat system.
My 4 year old ties a towel to her shoulders and pretends to be a superhero. Roleplaying is not between the covers of a book.
As an extension of that, if you tell me that any game is the same just because you roleplay the same, then as far as I am concerned, you don't get the point.
"I just want D&D to run smoothly, palpate my gamer gland, and bring the metal." - A 4E fan
"I've got to have all that, but I require intelligent conversation as well." - Me
I have heard quite a few 3PPs state that their 4E sales were very disappointing, after having been very successful in the 3E market.
Yeah, there was a bloat and it had its impacts. Not everything was sunshine and ice cream. But to call the 4E 3PP flop a carryover claims that it is just more of the same and nothing could be farther from the truth.
The prejudice is still there. But a lot of 3E stuff sold extremely well because the prejudice didn't take out the whole market. With 4E, it is very different.
I have heard otherwise.
I have seen FLGS refusing to order 3pp because it would only end up in the bargain bin. I have talked to players who refuse to buy anymore 3pp cause it's all considered crap now.
The prejudice is there, its not the only factor involved but is there and wont go away anytime soon.
Expeditious Retreat Press has a series called "Lands of Darkness" that are basically location based adventures. I haven't picked one up yet to speak to the actual product, but I have been very satisfied with them before.
Does Expeditious Retreat Press publish any work that is not by Monte Cook? If not, then that speaks very highly of the quality of their product, imho.
However, I think you're right that with their d20 fire sale they had in December, many of their potential customers have likely already stocked up.
I know I certainly did. I went from owning 10 Goodman items to almost their entire inventory of d20 products in the course of one night. I'm probably not even ever going to run Broncosaurus Rex, but I couldn't stop myself.
I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at new product though, from them or anyone else.
Last edited by Mikaze; 8th June 2009 at 02:48 PM..
My source is not omniscient and can't speak for everyone's sales. They also have no information on non WotC 3e sales.
Yeah, see, the problem with sources you don't want to be crude and drop their names. But if you have their opinion or intel, you want to share it, too. That means you can take what I have to say with the same grain.
I happen to run into my old friend this weekend who runs both an online and mortar RPG/game distributorship. We chatted about the business, naturally. He noted that while his paper backstock of Goodman Games' 3.5 DCC's were still selling, the 4e sales of the same have gone to nil, having him stop ordering them completely.
his paper backstock of Goodman Games' 3.5 DCC's were still selling
This surprises me. I would have guessed that the modules would have been sold out by now. I used them a lot on 3e and I think they are easy to use once I convert them to 4e (or even the older editions).
With Pathfinder coming out soon, Goodman will be positioned to offer support products right away if they want to.
However, I think you're right that with their d20 fire sale they had in December, many of their potential customers have likely already stocked up.
I stocked up on Goodman DCC's as well. Joe Goodman himself managed to find me a DCC #35 that was laying around the warehouse back then too (I was a happy camper indeed ). If Goodman starts making a new DCCs 3.5 or Pathfinder, ill be on board. Goodman and Paizo are my favorite publishers.
but in general you can use the old versions with the new system without much trouble.
I find this to be true with the PFRPG rules as well. We've been using select rules in our 3.5 games with a "plug and play" attitude. So far everything works out fine with zero modifications.
As for monsters with new or refined abilities, Ill treat them like I do the PFRPG classes... guage the difference and pick one or the other to be "official" in my game (sorta treating them like variants).
A guy who gamed with me for a while led me to believe that the gamer community in Puerto Rico was not very large. As I recall, he divided his time throughout his adult gaming life between Puerto Rico, the Chicagoland area and his military duties which took him around to various bases in the US and overseas, so his comparisons seemed to suggest he knew what he was discussing. Does your annecdotal information have the same kind of breadth?
Heck, considering that editing is going on now, I can't help but think we'll see Pathfinder logos and classics on 'em if that's permissible with the Pathfinder license.
What would be cool is if Goodman compiles and publishes as large hardcover books (ie. over 150-200 pages), some of the Dungeon Crawl Classics modules which naturally fit into an adventure path. The books can even be dual-stated for both 3.5 and Pathfinder.
The model I had mind was what Paizo did for the Shackled City adventure path, compiling 12 articles into one huge hardcover book.
What would be cool is if Goodman compiles and publishes as large hardcover books (ie. over 150-200 pages), some of the Dungeon Crawl Classics modules which naturally fit into an adventure path. The books can even be dual-stated for both 3.5 and Pathfinder.
The model I had mind was what Paizo did for the Shackled City adventure path, compiling 12 articles into one huge hardcover book.
Possible but it seemed they were going the 'reboxing' method of the physical copies they had.
With print cost being significant, I can't imagine these things coming back into print unless it via lulu or something similiar.
Possible but it seemed they were going the 'reboxing' method of the physical copies they had.
With print cost being significant, I can't imagine these things coming back into print unless it via lulu or something similiar.
Reboxing would be viable if Goodman still has tons of printed copies left collecting dust in a warehouse. No idea if their warehouse is empty of 3.5E stuff or not.
I don't know if it would be viable to reprint individual modules again, unless there is great demand for them. At a few local FLGS in town they still have a few 3.5E Dungeon Crawl Classics left over from 2006 or 2007, which have been collecting dust for more than a year in the bargain bins.
)
If not, then that speaks very highly of the quality of their product, imho.
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