General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
I imagine the GSL change that allows Goodman to do this might entice other 3rd party publishers who haven't felt comfortable doing so to date to throw their hat in the 4e ring if they know their products won't have to be pulled again when 5e comes out in a couple of years. Who knows, we may even start to see 4e material from companies like Green Ronin and even Paizo now.
It sounds like a win win for everyone (except of course those strange folks in the minority who enjoy participating in edition wars and have vowed to fight on like five year olds).
The 4e ones will have to be pulled when 5e comes out if WotC says so at that time. This has not changed. The GSL change was solely a change as to whether publishing under the GSL requires not offering OGL products in the same product line. This means Goodman can offer the 3e ones again and that 4e 3pps can now offer 3e OGL versions of the 4e stuff they did and that 3e 3pp could do 4e updates of their stuff if they want to without shelving the 3e ones. The GSL stuff will not be secure forever the way the OGL ones are by my understanding.
This has led Green Ronin to license out a 4e Freeport companion book to Expeditious Retreat Press, but not enough of an enticement for GR to do any GSL stuff itself.
Paizo has similarly said the GSL, even with the revision, is not for them.
Reboxing would be viable if Goodman still has tons of printed copies left collecting dust in a warehouse. No idea if their warehouse is empty of 3.5E stuff or not.
I doubt it, but even if they did, the d20 logo would be on most of them, and the d20 license has expired.
They'd have to print all new.
And, honestly, if they did decide to support Pathfinder (and I'd be pleasantly surprised if they did.), I would prefer they supported it with new stuff. Still, I think they've pretty much got their own nice 4E niche (adventures/level up magazine/monsters), so though it's disappointing to me, they are probably best off just continuing to support 4E.
Now, I haven't followed the Pathfinder development closely. However, I was surprised when I saw the Free RPG Day Pathfinder Bonus Bestiary was all 3.5 monsters converted to the Pathfinder system.
This doesn't bode too well for "easily converted." Maybe it is easy work and they are just saving labor. I admit, it was still a surprise.
It didn't surprise me. The pathfinder bestiary is designed primarily to keep the 3e monster manual in print now that WotC doesn't make 3e ones any more. I expect conversions to be easy, but I haven't seen the finished product yet to say how much mechanically changes. I expect it will be similar to using d20 modern, Arcana Evolved, and Iron Heroes bestiaries in 3.5
I expect it will be similar to using d20 modern, Arcana Evolved, and Iron Heroes bestiaries in 3.5
I doubt it, from what I've seen and heard. I mean, you might be right (of course) but I suspect it'll be more like using, say, a 3.0 MM (or MM2, even) with 3.5 PHB (and DMG, I guess).
I doubt it, from what I've seen and heard. I mean, you might be right (of course) but I suspect it'll be more like using, say, a 3.0 MM (or MM2, even) with 3.5 PHB (and DMG, I guess).
You consider 3.5 more different from 3.0 than d20 Modern, AE, or IH? I expect conversions will be similar to using 3.0 in 3.5 or vice versa.
Sort of like using a 2e Monstrous compendium in a 1e D&D game or vice versa.
So, does this bode well for the 3.5 market? Does a big name like Goodman (with their extensive adventure support) re-releasing their stable of products, speak to their belief that the 3.5 market is still worth troubling over? Any time spent re-issuing 3.XE products (removal of d20 logo and other editing adjustments) takes time away from their 4E support, so this seems to be no small move.
I think it says the market is worth troubling over to the extent they have.
Although I'm glad it is happening, I don't think it is a big move. They said they would keep the files at rpgnow for old customers to be able to download the ones they purchased before the old retirement date. I expect this means it is some work to reactivate them but not a significant amount and therefore definitely worth doing to get a hundred or so already created OGL pdf products back into their active catalogue to take advantage of their long tale sales and the potential future ongoing pathfinder market.
I would like to see OGL conversions of their 4e DCCs as I own a ton of the 3e ones, enjoy them, and would like to see more with things like Punjar etc.
A guy who gamed with me for a while led me to believe that the gamer community in Puerto Rico was not very large. As I recall, he divided his time throughout his adult gaming life between Puerto Rico, the Chicagoland area and his military duties which took him around to various bases in the US and overseas, so his comparisons seemed to suggest he knew what he was discussing. Does your annecdotal information have the same kind of breadth?
All I can offer in this regard is the handle of Enworlder Helfdan, who lives in Puerto Rico. That same game of mine originally had two players from Puerto Rico, but the other one fell by the wayside some time back, though I understand that he is still active on Enworld (handle- Maeglin).
You consider 3.5 more different from 3.0 than d20 Modern, AE, or IH? I expect conversions will be similar to using 3.0 in 3.5 or vice versa.
No, less so. Hm. Just realised, might've had wires crossed or something. . .
Mind you, I've only tried two and a half of those, the half being CoC d20 (kinda Modern) to 3.5. And sometimes, that was the other was around. And besides, I mightn't be remembering 100%. Eh, either way, I'm pretty sure it'll be quite easy.
Last edited by Aus_Snow; 8th June 2009 at 06:41 PM..
Reason: Call of Cthulhu, not Castles & Crusades! :)
Yeah, see, the problem with sources you don't want to be crude and drop their names. But if you have their opinion or intel, you want to share it, too. That means you can take what I have to say with the same grain.
I happen to run into my old friend this weekend who runs both an online and mortar RPG/game distributorship. We chatted about the business, naturally. He noted that while his paper backstock of Goodman Games' 3.5 DCC's were still selling, the 4e sales of the same have gone to nil, having him stop ordering them completely.
-DM Jeff
Several of my sources who deal in the 2nd handed book business, mentioned that some 3.5E books have paradoxically been viable sellers these days. Even in the price range of $15 to $20 bucks a pop, second handed copies of titles like:
have been moving like hotcakes. Every time they get one of these titles on the shelves, it would be sold within a few days. In contrast, older 1E and 2E AD&D core books collect dust on the shelves for long periods of time despite being priced in the range $5 to $10 a pop (or even less).
In response to comments like these below...can you PM me or email me with the contact info for the stores involved? I have a soft spot for game stores and I'm always happy to work with them to find a good solution for everyone. We have a number of promotional programs that usually address the concerns expressed below.
Thanks,
Joseph
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggroy
At several local FLGS in town, all kinds of 3E/d20 3pp stuff ended up in the bargain bin a year later. The aftermath of all this was that the smaller FLGS stopped carrying any new d20 3pp stuff for the most part. These smaller FLGS were reluctant at first to even carry stuff like newer Dungeon Crawl Classics modules, or later the Paizo/Pathfinder adventure paths and modules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cangrejoide
I have seen FLGS refusing to order 3pp because it would only end up in the bargain bin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DM_Jeff
I happen to run into my old friend this weekend who runs both an online and mortar RPG/game distributorship. We chatted about the business, naturally. He noted that while his paper backstock of Goodman Games' 3.5 DCC's were still selling, the 4e sales of the same have gone to nil, having him stop ordering them completely.
__________________ Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
www.goodman-games.com
info@goodman-games.com
In response to comments like these below...can you PM me or email me with the contact info for the stores involved? I have a soft spot for game stores and I'm always happy to work with them to find a good solution for everyone. We have a number of promotional programs that usually address the concerns expressed below.
Thanks,
Joseph
Good to see you posting here Mr. Goodman.
In the cases I had in mind, this "tainted 3pp" problem happened around 4-5 years ago shortly after the "d20 crash". Of the FLGS in question, two went out of business already for different unrelated reasons. Another FLGS has toughed it out since and eventually started stocking the more popular 3pp stuff like Dungeon Crawl Classics, Pathfinder AP's, etc ... over the last several years since the d20 crash. (I've been buying the 4E DCC's from this particular FLGS).
There is no way I would by any old 3.5 versions of Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics. I don't care what the discount is, whether they are boxed sets, or whether they are combined into hardcover books.
There is no way I would by any old 3.5 versions of Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics. I don't care what the discount is, whether they are boxed sets, or whether they are combined into hardcover books.
Heck, considering that editing is going on now, I can't help but think we'll see Pathfinder logos and classics on 'em if that's permissible with the Pathfinder license.
So, does Pathfinder's existence move Paizo from a 3PP to a 1PP, or does Goodman's publishing of Pathfinder products now make them a 4PP???
If not, then that speaks very highly of the quality of their product, imho.
Eh, either way, I'm pretty sure it'll be quite easy. 
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