General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
If you play OED&D/retroclones, this questionnaire is for you
There has been a bit of fur flying lately around the forums and blogosphere about what begat the OSR (Old School Revival/Renaissance). There's a lot of Internet-available history that traces the emergence of games like OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, microlite20/74 and Swords & Wizardry from a publisher/content provider perspective, but less so from a player perspective. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence for various reasons why people are playing original edition games, so I thought I would try and ask questions, rather than argue about it. I've posted this post on my blog as well as several forums.
Notes: If you're not currently investigating or playing an original edition game or retroclone/simulacra, this poll is not for you.
For purposes of this poll, I'm defining original edition as anything prior to 3rd Edition (I'm including 2nd edition because it seems the discussion/argument is more about 3E/4E as a differentiator.) Retroclone refers to games like OSRIC, Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, Castles & Crusades, microlite74, etc.
Multiple choices are OK. If you have an answer to a question that I've not provided, please feel free to write in your own.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm playing in an established campaign as a player
I'm running an established campaign as a DM
I'm looking to play in a new campaign
I'm looking to run in a new campaign
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
I've always been playing original edition/retroclone D&D
3E D&D
4E D&D
I was playing something other than D&D
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E
I'm not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 3E
I like the OGL and wanted to play games that use it
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
I'm not looking to replace 4E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 4E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 4E
I like the GSL and wanted to play games that use it
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
It was recommended by a friend
It was what my game group is playing
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
I was attracted by the amount of "buzz" on the Internet
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
It was recommended by a friend
It is what my game group is playing
I already owned my older books
From a blog
From a D&D related forum
From the retroclone publisher's website
Please comment to respond to the poll or visit the same poll at my blog. If you wish to engage in edition wars, I would ask that you do that in another thread, please. This is an honest, serious attempt to put at least a few numbers around anecdotes and supposition.
__________________ -- Chgowiz
If you're in the dark, beware the grue! Chgowiz's Old Guy RPG Blog - Sharing the fun of original edition D&D, one game at a time.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm playing in an established campaign as a player
2. What type of roleplaying game were you still playing before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
Still playing 4E D&D
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I am unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
3. If you are playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
I already owned my older books
__________________ ENworld OAF (Old-school Admirer of 4th edition)
I'm currently playing BFRPG, which is a retro-clone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chgowiz
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm running an established campaign as a DM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chgowiz
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
3.0E D&D; before that, 2E.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chgowiz
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach. More specifically, 3E required a lot of prep time and was too rules-heavy for my playing style, so I moved to BFRPG which is much easier to prep and relatively rules-light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chgowiz
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chgowiz
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
From a D&D related forum (here on ENWorld). BFRPG was recommended to me HERE.
__________________ In space, everyone can hear you pump the 12-gauge.
- Korgoth about Classic Traveller
In the past year, I played in a BECMI game that fell apart (economy's fault), ran an online 1e AD&D game that fell apart (my fault), and am trying to start a 2e game now.
I still play 3.5e and will most definitely continue to do so. I have the core rulebooks for 4e, but haven't been able to build up the interest in myself to give the game a try.
I'm a self-made player, bringing myself into the game 25 years ago without anyone to introduce me, so I've played all the old editions and upgraded as each new one came out. Except for 4e. I felt that 4e was doing things that didn't interest me, and so I started hunting through the old editions to try to understand what I was missing and what I am looking for in my games.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm playing in an established campaign as a player
I'm running an established campaign as a DM
I'm looking to play in a new campaign
I'm looking to run in a new campaign
At the moment, I'm looking to run a new campaign and I'm running a demo game at a local convention.
Quote:
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
I've always been playing original edition/retroclone D&D
3E D&D
4E D&D
I was playing something other than D&D
I was playing other OOP games (The Fantasy Trip, GURPS Man to Man, etc) and Dark Heresy immediately before I looked into retroclones. The first RPG I ever played was Holmes BD&D back in the early 1980s, though, so before that I wasn't playing any RPGs.
Quote:
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E
I'm not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 3E
I like the OGL and wanted to play games that use it
I wasn't playing much 3e when I decided to look into retroclones, having already moved on to other games.
Quote:
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
I'm not looking to replace 4E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 4E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 4E
I like the GSL and wanted to play games that use it
I've only played 4e twice but am interested in it. I'm simply waiting for corrected versions of the core rule books to be printed and it seems that nobody at WotC can give me a straight answer on if that has happened yet.
Quote:
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
It was recommended by a friend
It was what my game group is playing
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
I was attracted by the amount of "buzz" on the Internet
The scarcity and sometimes high price of old TSR products (frex, complete sets of Holmes BD&D in excellent condition aren't common or cheap).
Quote:
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
It was recommended by a friend
It is what my game group is playing
I already owned my older books
From a blog
From a D&D related forum
From the retroclone publisher's website
Via RPGnet and ENWorld, IIRC. Specifically, Dan Proctor spent some time here and there talking about Labyrinth Lord on a fairly regular basis.
*This question is poorly worded, IMO. In effect, all of the above answers applies to me as I currently play in many games.
**Still playing 3E, never stopped playing B/X, love the OGL. Not trying to replace 3E, but not playing an old school game out of curiosity either (thus not choosing option 2).
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm playing in an established campaign as a player AND I'm running an established campaign as a DM.
(And we play 3Ed as well.)
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
Again, I've always been playing original edition/retroclone D&D since 1977, and have also been playing 3E D&D. I've also played about 60+ other systems since I got into the hobby, including HERO (my all-time #1 fave), M&M, RIFTS, GURPS (which I only play out of friendship), Paranoia, and a few playtests.
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E.
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
Didn't play 4Ed because I was unhappy with the 4Ed rules, mechanics & approach. As a marketer, I was also somewhat displeased with the changes from the OGL to the GSL.
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
It was what my core game group has been playing since the mid-1980s.
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
It is what my core game group has been playing since the mid-1980s, and I already owned my older books.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
[list=1][*]I'm playing in an established campaign as a player[*]I'm running an established campaign as a DM
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
[*]3E D&D
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
[*]I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
[*]I still play 4E, but only at game days.
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
[*]I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics[*]I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
[*]From a D&D related forum[*]From the retroclone publisher's website
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
Right now I'm looking (not too hard) tom play or run. I have some time for more games so if I found the right people this could happen.
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
This is a difficult question. I have always been interested as my first game was D&D and it wasn't retro at the time. So, there was no before.
Currently though I am playing in a game of Scion.
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
Because different is good. I would still play 3e if the chance presented itself. I have those books but I also have the original D&D games so no use ignoring them.
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I was attracted by the amount of "buzz" on the Internet
That's the closest. I wouldn't call it buzz as I would annoying posters. No more or less then the posters that also push 3e, 4e, Pathfinder, Exalted, Savage Worlds, what have you.
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm looking to run in a new campaign
I just got into BFRPG, and I'm tempted to run a few sessions of it. 2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone? 3E D&D 4E D&D
Running 3.5/Eberron, playing in 4e. 3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E
I'm not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
See above. 3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
I'm not looking to replace 4E with original edition, just curious
See above. 4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I'm mostly looking for a nostalgia kick to remind me of the game I played in Jr. High, but I don't want to go back "all the way", I want some of the later innovations (like upwards AC) and better rule organizational/sensibility. 5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
From a D&D related forum
Right here, though I did the majority of my info digging on the publisher's website.
There is no guarantee I will actually get to play it, but my intention right now is to get an "occasional" game running ever so often that will involve dungeons & monsters and 10 ft x 10 ft rooms, and continue to use a more current edition for my "main game" for now.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm working on my own version- what I'm calling "DnD Jazz Edition," taking the best of each edition and smashing them into a pot pie of joyous rpg stuff.
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
I've played every edition from Basic on up to 4e, and am currently running 4e.
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
NA
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
I want to speed the game up a lot more- I want the pcs to be able to go through an encounter that is appropriately challenging in 15-30 minutes, not 60-120 minutes!
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
[b]1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm looking to run in a new campaign.
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
3E D&D
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I was not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
4. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I am unhappy with the 4E rules, mechanics or approach
I am unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 4E
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
I already owned my older books
From a D&D related forum
From the retroclone publisher's website
I cut my teeth on AD&D 1st Edition. Played 2nd Edition throughout the 90s. I started looking back to AD&D and Basic D&D during third edition, because DMing became a chore and I wanted a simpler system that didn't focus so much on rules and power, but on story.
About a year ago, just before 4e came out, I ran a 1st Edition AD&D game. It was blast to run. The players, for the most part, liked it too, despite some of its quirks.
I'd love to run a OD&D campaign because of its simplicity. You just sat down and played the game without having to keep track of a lot of rules. The DM can easily tailor the game to his style of play.
__________________ "Farewell, Friend. I was a thousand times more evil than thou!"
--Stormbringer
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm running an established campaign as a DM
The game started at level 1, and now the players are 36th and Immortal.
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
3E D&D.
I started with OD&D in the mid-90s, but then my group switched to AD&D 2nd edition, and we converted to 3rd edition when that came out.
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
Specifically, the game was bloated. Too many spells, items, feats, monsters, prestige classes, base classes, etc. 2nd edition isn't much better than 3rd in this regard, but OD&D is very concise.
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
But don't ever confuse the rules themselves with any kind of "feel." I detest swords & sorcery, although I'm certainly partial to pulp high fantasy. I seriously freaking loathe all those grognard types who think that I'm playing OD&D "wrong" if it doesn't feel like Conan or Elric or Gray Mouser or whoever-the-crap they used to read back before I was born.
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
I already owned my older books.
Classic Set, Rules Cyclopedia, Wrath of the Immortals. All you need.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm playing in an established campaign as a player
I'm running an established campaign as a DM
I'm looking to play in a new campaign
I'm looking to run in a new campaign
I'm playing in one old-edition campaign and running another.
Quote:
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
I've always been playing original edition/retroclone D&D
3E D&D
4E D&D
I was playing something other than D&D
I've always been playing/running old-edition D+D, even during a several-year branch into playing in a modified 3e campaign.
Quote:
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E
I'm not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 3E
I like the OGL and wanted to play games that use it
None of the above. I bailed on 3e (after a 7-year run) mostly due to annoyance with the rules and mechanics, but the old-edition games long pre-dated 3e and are still going.
Quote:
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
I'm not looking to replace 4E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 4E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 4E
I like the GSL and wanted to play games that use it
I have not played 4e.
Quote:
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
It was recommended by a friend
It was what my game group is playing
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
I was attracted by the amount of "buzz" on the Internet
It was the only option available when I started playing in the early 1980's.
Quote:
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm looking to play in a new campaign
I'm looking to run in a new campaign
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone? 3E D&D 4E D&D
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E
I'm not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
I like the OGL and wanted to play games that use it
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
I'm not looking to replace 4E with original edition, just curious
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast marketed 4E - particularly as regards the digital tools.
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
From a blog
From a D&D related forum
From the retroclone publisher's website
And even though no one asked specific games, I'm particularly taken by Mazes and Minotaurs.
Are the "retroclones"/OD&D really more or less "pulp" or "Sword and Sorcery" than modern D&D? Are they more or less pulp/S&S than something like Savage Worlds?
Don't feel like you have to answer it now, but I hear the OSR people advance this claim a lot, but I'm not sure on its accuracy.
@Kunimatyu - That's a topic for another thread. I'd like to keep this thread focused on the poll. Thanks.
__________________ -- Chgowiz
If you're in the dark, beware the grue! Chgowiz's Old Guy RPG Blog - Sharing the fun of original edition D&D, one game at a time.
1. What are you doing with an original edition/retroclone D&D?
I'm playing in an established campaign as a player
I'm running an established campaign as a DM
I'm looking to play in a new campaign
I'm looking to run in a new campaign
2. What type of roleplaying game were you playing (or are still playing) before you became
interested/involved in an original edition/retroclone?
I've always been playing original edition/retroclone D&D
3E D&D
4E D&D
I was playing something other than D&D
3. If you were playing 3E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 3E
I'm not looking to replace 3E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 3/3.5E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 3E
I like the OGL and wanted to play games that use it
3. If you were playing 4E, why did you decide to investigate/play an original edition game or retroclone?
I still play 4E
I'm not looking to replace 4E with original edition, just curious
My group of friends are playing and I went along with it
I was unhappy with the 4E rules, mechanics or approach
I was unhappy with how Wizards of the Coast published/marketed 4E
I like the GSL and wanted to play games that use it
I like the OGL and wanted to play games that use it
4. What attracted you to investigate/play an original edition/retroclone D&D?
It was recommended by a friend
It was what my game group is playing
I used to play these games and wanted to "go back"
I liked the approach of the rules/mechanics
I liked the philosophy behind the rules/mechanics
I liked the "feel" (Swords & Sorcery or pulp) of the game
I was attracted by the amount of "buzz" on the Internet
5. How did you learn about the original editions/retroclones?
It was recommended by a friend
It is what my game group is playing
I already owned my older books
From a blog
From a D&D related forum
From the retroclone publisher's website
RC
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
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