General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
I'm trying to introduce my kids to D&D, but I myself am an extreme newbie. I'm still trying to grasp the whole thing. Here is an example of something that somewhat puzzles me...
From Dungeon Delves page 13:
"A large hole drops 20 feet to the top of a staircase leading to room 2. A sturdy rope ladder (DC 5 Athletics check to climb) hangs from the southern lip."
Suppose we roll for the Athletics check and the player fails. What happens? Do we just keep rolling until we get it right? (a meaningless delay) Or should the player fall and take damage (seems gratuitous) or what?
I guess what I'm struggling with are the in-between encounter rolls that may occur and how to handle failure.
I believe the skill description in the player's handbook will tell you what happens when you fail. As I recall, for climbing you don't fall unless you fail by 5 or more and you don't make progress if you fail by less than 5.
If you find the check pointless then you can choose to ignore it.
In this particular instance, the description of the Athletics skill tells you how to adjudicate (you only fall if you fail the check by 5 or more). It's very hard to fail a DC 5 check at all, so in this instance, the worst that can happen is probably that the character stays put until he tries again (foot slipped off the ladder, lost his grip but caught the rung below, that kind of thing).
In general, the Skill description will provide you with what you need. Otherwise, your job as the DM is to visualise the action, and decide what penalty (if any) is appropriate for the 'failure' in question. Different DM's will come up with different answers much of the time.
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As they said, if the character fails by 5 or more (that is, the Athletics check total is 0 or less), then they fall. But that's only possible if the character is clumsy and/or wearing very cumbersome armor & gear (with a high check penalty), *and* rolls bad. Any failure by 4 or less just means they get hung up/wobbly/freaked out, and don't get to move that round; try again next round.
Also, if the character isn't in a rush and isn't threatened or distracted, then the character should be able to "Take 10" (p. 179 of the Players Handbook); then the skill result would 10 + total Athletics bonus. Then they'd fail only if they somehow had a -6 Athletics; I don't regularly play 4e, so I don't know if that's even possible, let alone feasible, but it doesn't seem likely. From looking at the Equipment chapter, it seems like the highest check penalty you could get would be -4 (for heavy armor and shield), and I think the lowest Str you can start with would be 8. So if you're a scrawny weakling who for some reason still wears the heaviest armor and carries the biggest shield, you're looking at a -5 penalty, so you'd still (barely) make it taking 10. You'd have to have some additional penalty, from a curse or disease or the like, to fail while taking 10.
In other words, if the character isn't being chased or menaced by a monster, isn't afflicted, and isn't in a hurry or distracted -- which probably boils down to any time they're between encounters -- then they can take 10 and climb down safely.
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Wow, all excellent answers! Okay, I guess I'll have to become more familiar with the players handbook and/or more understanding of the situation in order to produce a realistic response. Thanks for your comments, they were very helpful.
In my personal view, barring any information missing from your description, that particular check is gratuitous. What in-world reason is there for an adventurer to freeze up on the ladder (1/5 chance with no +/- factor) [PHB 182]? What in-game difference does the wasted time make? I'm not big on spending real-world play time on inconsequential dice rolls rather than in presenting players with meaningful choices.
A fall from the ladder (occurring on a total of zero or less) is possible only with a penalty to athletics. It's not a big deal in this version of the game, either. A character with only 20 hit points (e.g., a first-level wizard with constitution 10) has a 1% chance of getting knocked to zero [PHB 284]. In that unlikely event, I think it would be fair for you to rule that the character is merely knocked unconscious rather than dying. [PHB 295] The average damage of 11 points costs at most a couple of healing surges [PHB 293] to restore (completely or mostly). Actually running out of surges is in my experience unlikely; the real danger lies in running out of access to them during an encounter.
Wow, all excellent answers! Okay, I guess I'll have to become more familiar with the players handbook and/or more understanding of the situation in order to produce a realistic response. Thanks for your comments, they were very helpful.
Welcome!
A good way to think of the game is to only require rolls if something makes the game more fun. For instance, some adventure might have a ladder like that but put a trap underneath it for people to fall into, after which monsters would spring out -- that's interesting, and worth making the players roll. But unless they're rushed, just descending the ladder shouldn't be a huge deal. You won't go wrong if you think of the game a little bit like an action movie in that regard.
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While not a direct answer to your questions, I would recommend you visit The Young Persons Adventure League for some nice tips on how to run games for younger RPG players, as well as recommendations of systems to try. The guy who runs the site also runs The Escapist, a great RPG advocacy site, as well as being the core of Origin's Kids RPG program.
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or our older WizarDru's Story Hour? You Should.
I ain't linking to Piratecat's story hour...no sir, I just won't do it. He can just get the next half-million reads on his own.
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