General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
You are saying that the market is dead because there is no one interested in offering supply. If there was a demand, the supply would emerge. My point is, the demand is not there. You can not blame companies for not making products that don't sell.
Well, yeah, if you want to get all capitalistic about it.
Gygax Games has only agreed to publish Gary's Lejendary Adventures line with Mongoose Games--and things have been delayed due to internal things that need to be resolved, as Gail has stated. Castle Zagyg--which is what I assume you're referring to--it's publisher, form, fate, etc., AFAIK has yet to be decided upon.
So I'm not sure how this discussion about D&D and GSL/OGL stuff relates to that.
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Forum FYI:
Kask is not the famous Tim Kask of the early days of TSR
I am that weird guy you see buried deep down in the credits section on many of EGGs later products.
Gygax Games has only agreed to publish Gary's Lejendary Adventures line with Mongoose Games--and things have been delayed due to internal things that need to be resolved, as Gail has stated. Castle Zagyg--which is what I assume you're referring to--it's publisher, form, fate, etc., AFAIK has yet to be decided upon.
So I'm not sure how this discussion about D&D and GSL/OGL stuff relates to that.
just stream of consciousness as i just wiped pizza grease off the zagyg boxed set book 1 i am reading as i read these boards...
you're right tho, dont want to derail the thread so i'll go back and delete it...
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
Clark is a successful professional, and has a lot of experience in the RPG field these past ten years. If he could make it work from a business standpoint, he would give it a try (as stated in the OP). D&D is something he feels very strongly about, and I think it pains him greatly that he can't do for 4E what he did for 3E (for the many and good reasons stated by him and others in this thread). Telling him what to do with his company strikes me as a little pushy.
Quote:
Take the 4E system, and fluff it out...
On the other hand, it sounds like you have some very clear ideas on a product you'd like to see. I recommend you go for it! Start writing, start your own company. As a regular joe posting on a message board, you're not that much different than Clark was ten years ago; a few ideas, a big burning passion, and a mechanism (OGL for him, GSL for you) to present those ideas to an audience larger than your own gaming group. Sounds like you have those things, yourself. I say go for it, and may you learn from the mistakes of those who have gone before you.
__________________ What family doesn't have its up and downs?
On the other hand, it sounds like you have some very clear ideas on a product you'd like to see. I recommend you go for it! Start writing, start your own company. As a regular joe posting on a message board, you're not that much different than Clark was ten years ago; a few ideas, a big burning passion, and a mechanism (OGL for him, GSL for you) to present those ideas to an audience larger than your own gaming group. Sounds like you have those things, yourself. I say go for it, and may you learn from the mistakes of those who have gone before you.
That is a great point, but Clark also had a secret weapon: Bill Webb.
Though wishful thinking on my part, it would be great if the Pathfinder core book becomes an "evergreen" title.
None of the "big box" bookstores nearby have much of an rpg secton beyond WotC products, other than some old Everquest rpg books still on the shelves that nobody seems to pay attention to.
Have to jump back and finish reading this thread but all major named stores do stock it. Now your outlet may not have it on a shelf but you better believe it is i the warehouse. I was informed by books a million that pathfinder 20 was sold out and not sure when they could get more in.
The store was not sold out the warehouse was. GOOd thing is i my area most of the D&D shelf space now has other games in it from pathfinder to Wod but the D&D shelf is a 4th of the size it was 2 years back so now people see other games to, always a good thing. Not that BAm has a large section 3 shelves is all
Now If I recall about paizo and getting into big boxed stores it was over mags not books. When they lost the mags any people kept asking for another mag. An james I think it was stated that it was hard to get big box stores to even listen as Paizo was a small company with a nitch product with an unknown name
Edit: Erik seems to have weighed in...carry on
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
Last edited by Hunter In Darkness; 20th June 2009 at 03:31 AM..
Why? Didn't 3rd party stuff glut the market and the lack of quality control from some 3PPs damage the brand? Orcus even implies that there's not much appetite for it from distributors and retailers. In light of that, maybe the GSL is working as intended i.e. WOTC not forfeiting control over the latest edition under the D&D brand.
This.
Everything that has transpired has done so according to WOTC's desire.
On the other hand, it sounds like you have some very clear ideas on a product you'd like to see. I recommend you go for it! Start writing, start your own company. As a regular joe posting on a message board, you're not that much different than Clark was ten years ago; a few ideas, a big burning passion, and a mechanism (OGL for him, GSL for you) to present those ideas to an audience larger than your own gaming group. Sounds like you have those things, yourself. I say go for it, and may you learn from the mistakes of those who have gone before you.
I'm not a writer. Its not that I can't or that I'm bad at it, its that I don't write. If you're a writer, you will write whether you get paid for it or not. I have to bludgeon myself to get anything written down that isn't a snap response on a message board.
I don't think there is anybody, including anybody from WotC, who would try to argue that they didn't seriously drop the ball when it comes to the GSL.
But not everyone tends to be meanspirited about it.
Actually, I prefer carmachu's bluntness. I don't think people need to be evenhanded or even courteous to business entities.
Having said that, here is my maybe mean spirited comment (which I don't intend to be mean spirited so much as just stating what I believe to be the truth). That is, I do not agree with your statement that even WotC would say that they dropped the ball with the GSL. Maybe Scott would agree. But I believe that at the higher levels of the company, the GSL has worked exactly as they intended. I believe they are currently delighted with the state of things -- they've killed a bunch of the smaller competitors yapping at their heels. Yay.
Actually, I prefer carmachu's bluntness. I don't think people need to be evenhanded or even courteous to business entities.
Having said that, here is my maybe mean spirited comment (which I don't intend to be mean spirited so much as just stating what I believe to be the truth). That is, I do not agree with your statement that even WotC would say that they dropped the ball with the GSL. Maybe Scott would agree. But I believe that at the higher levels of the company, the GSL has worked exactly as they intended. I believe they are currently delighted with the state of things -- they've killed a bunch of the smaller competitors yapping at their heels. Yay.
Agreed---with the other prong of the attack coming from the proprietary DDI that no one can add non-WOTC stuff to.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
In the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if some hacker types found a way to circumvent DDI and add all kinds of non-WotC stuff.
Agreed. I would not put down the ideal of a hacked DDI like program or at the very lest a character builder hack. Some may be floating around. Once ya throw the gauntlet down your just begging someone to hack it. And they will just say they can say "Look I post this first!" Heck the last starwars book was in PDF form and on file shareing within 12 hours of hitting the street.
Not endorsing this or anything it's just the way it is
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
Agreed---with the other prong of the attack coming from the proprietary DDI that no one can add non-WOTC stuff to.
Also agreed. The first GSL did NOT fail. It worked just as it was meant to work. It drove people away from 3PP and kept 3PP out of Wotc's pond.
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
In the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if some hacker types found a way to circumvent DDI and add all kinds of non-WotC stuff.
That would be not only hilarious, but sweet sweet karma.
You gotta figure, a hacker/programmer type could probably reverse engineer the thing in about 1/10 the time it took WOTC to develop it in the first place, right? Once it hits the torrents, that prong of the 3pp assault is dead.
__________________ ~Joe
If you like what I said, throw me some XP. I was a goblin sharpshooter for far too long.
That would be not only hilarious, but sweet sweet karma.
You gotta figure, a hacker/programmer type could probably reverse engineer the thing in about 1/10 the time it took WOTC to develop it in the first place, right? Once it hits the torrents, that prong of the 3pp assault is dead.
how would that work...I have to download a illigal copy of the builder, then eaither the company must support said illegal program (good luck), or I have to wait for others to fill it in...
I doubt we will see this ever...inless I missed something
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
how would that work...I have to download a illigal copy of the builder, then eaither the company must support said illegal program (good luck), or I have to wait for others to fill it in...
I doubt we will see this ever...inless I missed something
I'm sure there are ways around the verification. If windows XP hacks can happily download all the latest updates and pass the verification tests with flying colors despite being wholly pirated, the DDI material couldn't be all that difficult (IANAP/I am not a programmer).
__________________ "I can just see the 4e adventure anthology "Tale from the Limited Staircase"." - Ken Marable
Umm we have not been anti-Wotc just ya know talking about stuff
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
Cheering on hacking the Character builder, among other things?
Well we or at lest I was not cheering it on but talking about if it could be done. I know they builder is done on fileshareing, kinda hard to miss really. Then we moved into if it really could be done. As was poited out if ya can hack microsoft ya can hack Wotc.
Which is really a derail of the thread, so we should drop it. Sorry
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
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