General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
So the FLGS, to survive, must find products or services to offer that cannot be digitally duplicated. CCGs are one answer; while there are of course such games as Magic Online, those of us who play with physical cards have a substantial barrier to entry (the money we've already invested in paper), which prevents us making the jump as easily as D&D players can jump to DDI.
Yes. Organized events and a place to hang out and play top the list.
Yes. Organized events and a place to hang out and play top the list.
As I said, I use the internet to run my meetup group, but we still need a place to play. Part of the purpose is so you can meet new gamers before bringing them to your house. Without a place to game in peace, it wouldn't work. Gamers networking online will strengthen game stores, not weaken them.
And the DDI applies only to D&D. If it frees up game shelf space for other games, I only see that as a good thing.
__________________ Looking for gaming in Springfield, IL? Check out my Meetup Group.
As I said, I use the internet to run my meetup group, but we still need a place to play. Part of the purpose is so you can meet new gamers before bringing them to your house. Without a place to game in peace, it wouldn't work.
Not picking on you, I just see this a lot: so what about big cities? We here in NYC used to have playspace at Neutral Ground (they closed and moved, in the opposite order) and, ages ago, in Forbidden Planet (they remodeled and got a whole lot less friendly, not to mention losing their entire playspace). What's a lower-east-sider to do?
The answer tends to be "find a sympathetic diner and play there" (we don't really have IHOP's), at least for me; it really doesn't work.
If rent goes up too high, there's just nothing for the gamestore to do but move.
Depending on where it has to go to find an actual site, however, that also kills off its entire clientelle...
Anyway. From an urban standpoint, I'd say the FLGS has been dead for a while, and a few holdouts just hadn't noticed yet.
I was planning on opening a game store and coffee shop when I retire in 19 years. Perhaps by then, there won't be much competition according to your prognostications.
Yes. Organized events and a place to hang out and play top the list.
Yet, how do you expect them to stay open if no one is buying books, cards, etc... there? Do you expect fee's to be paid? If so what amount do you think will be charged that players will be willing to pay to play? Or do you think enough people will keep paying premium prices for books, etc... to keep the location open?
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
Yet, how do you expect them to stay open if no one is buying books, cards, etc... there? Do you expect fee's to be paid? If so what amount do you think will be charged that players will be willing to pay to play? Or do you think enough people will keep paying premium prices for books, etc... to keep the location open?
Excuse me, but you are begging the question.
How can a business sell product to maintain a profit? By providing services that costumers value, like gaming space. If you can't provide those values, customers won't buy. If you can't sell product, you can't provide those values. It is a circular argument with no provided means towards an actual conclusion.
To achieve a mature exchange of ideas in this thread, we have to move beyond these type of tar-pit rhetorical devices.
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99% of edition conflict boils down to "For me, there are a lot of things that [Edition] can not do in the way I want them done nearly as well as other systems can."
This relates to the crysis. A man can make only 5 things: 1) To work in farm sector, 2) to work in industry, 3) to work in service trades, 4) to be in public service or 5) to be unemployed. As civilization rises, most people come from farming to industry, then from industry to service trades. 80% workers in USA are employed in services, because farming and industry are technologically mastered and there is hard to create new opportunities.
However, US economy is so advanced that services are going to be technologically mastered as well, especially due to internet. People in services lose their jobs. And now what? There are no new opportuties in farm sector. There are no new opportuties in industry. There are limited new opportunities in public service (because it doesn't make GDP). The unemployment is a big exclamation point. The lost jobs seem to be lost forever.
It is cruel. And it is a challange as well. He who finds the cure he proves largely service to mankind.
RPG market nowadays is affected much like US economy. Internet services (E-shop, E-mail, E-banking etc.) are great as well as cruel. The near future is the challange and the new world after will be be changed forever.
I don't see it happening as much as the game stores changing. While there are a few places like the War Store, and of course ordering online, part of the hobby, that of miniatures, tends to rely more on seeing what you're getting in the first place. The miniatures, paint, brushes, etc... are generally not available at the massive discounts Amazon.com orders and they're expensive enough that some stores are dedicated to them.
I don't see it happening as much as the game stores changing. While there are a few places like the War Store, and of course ordering online, part of the hobby, that of miniatures, tends to rely more on seeing what you're getting in the first place. The miniatures, paint, brushes, etc... are generally not available at the massive discounts Amazon.com orders and they're expensive enough that some stores are dedicated to them.
I am totally with you on this. Sadly, minis that require assembly and painting are getting less popular with some gamers. The NOW generation wants to be able to play out of the box and there are some older gamers who might enjoy painting but lack the time due to the demands of real life. I still enjoy painting my own minis but it's becoming less common for the average rpg player to do so.
As far as seeing what you are getting, I enjoy that aspect of game stores for rpg books as well as mini related product. Stores that shrink wrap everything and don't provide a flip through copy of products kind of defeat the purpose of having physical inventory. If I want to buy something without examining it at all, then online buying will serve just as well.
Yet, how do you expect them to stay open if no one is buying books, cards, etc... there? Do you expect fee's to be paid? If so what amount do you think will be charged that players will be willing to pay to play? Or do you think enough people will keep paying premium prices for books, etc... to keep the location open?
Fanboy 3 in Manchester has a game space (unusual for the UK). it used to be free, but now they charge £2.50 per head per game session. I guess enough people were coming in, using the space then leaving (and buying elsewhere) that they had to start charging. I couldn't tell you if the numbers had dropped because of it.
As I said, I use the internet to run my meetup group, but we still need a place to play. Part of the purpose is so you can meet new gamers before bringing them to your house. Without a place to game in peace, it wouldn't work. Gamers networking online will strengthen game stores, not weaken them.
Uhm, no actually. I dont need to meet them at the game store to gauge them. A bar or Ihop or the mall work just as well. Hell thats how our DM got our last guy, met him at teh bar for a drink and talk....
I think its more a mixed bag, rather than strengthen them. It can, if you use it for a meet. But it'll weaken it if you dont.....
I don't see it happening as much as the game stores changing. While there are a few places like the War Store, and of course ordering online, part of the hobby, that of miniatures, tends to rely more on seeing what you're getting in the first place. The miniatures, paint, brushes, etc... are generally not available at the massive discounts Amazon.com orders and they're expensive enough that some stores are dedicated to them.
Not really. Having bought miniatures for decades, its much easier with the internet. I can see them quite well on pictures and home pages of the manufacturers, and there are plaenty of discounters online that I can get miniatures from without ever going to a gamestore. I can find miniatures 20-35% off easily depending on the manufacturer.
You dont need amazon for that. There are plenty of places to go beyond the warstore(although he is very good). Malestrom, chaosorc, miniature giant among the many others.
Uhm, no actually. I dont need to meet them at the game store to gauge them. A bar or Ihop or the mall work just as well. Hell thats how our DM got our last guy, met him at teh bar for a drink and talk....
I think its more a mixed bag, rather than strengthen them. It can, if you use it for a meet. But it'll weaken it if you dont.....
There's an advantage to actually gaming with someone before getting them into your home game. Sure, at the IHOP you can tell if they creep you out, but gaming with them you get a feel if their game style will mesh with yours. Sometimes people can be perfectly fine human beings, but be looking for something different than your group in a game.
__________________ Looking for gaming in Springfield, IL? Check out my Meetup Group.
There's an advantage to actually gaming with someone before getting them into your home game. Sure, at the IHOP you can tell if they creep you out, but gaming with them you get a feel if their game style will mesh with yours. Sometimes people can be perfectly fine human beings, but be looking for something different than your group in a game.
Thats what trial periods are for. *shrug* We had a very dynamic group of 7-6 plus DM, and then one guy moved due to work. It was the third guy that ended up staying as the players voted him in.
The first one didnt keep up with the online dynamic. The second was disruptive, but seemed ok and then dropped due to moving. The third guy worked out ok.
But even still, you still didnt need a game store for it.
Yet, how do you expect them to stay open if no one is buying books, cards, etc... there? Do you expect fee's to be paid?
Yep. The CCG, MMO players, and live-action players are already well-acquainted with the idea that you have to pay to play. If you're using someone else's space for tabletop, you should not expect to be able to do so for free.
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If so what amount do you think will be charged that players will be willing to pay to play?
That's going to vary greatly depending on the location - having a good space in Cambridge, MA, is much more expensive than having one in Blacksburg, VA.
So assuming you can agree with my "theory", how long do you think it will take for the last LGS to disappear?
There are quite a number of factors to consider before making any kind of reasonable assessment. Production costs, rents, ancillary products & services, energy costs, changes in transportation, increasing mixed-use development, growth of technology, etc.
You are asking us to guess how all these factors (and more) are going to change over the next ten-to-twenty years. This is something I cannot do and my job is as a financial analyst! The best I can do is look three-to-five years out and reassess on a regular basis. Anything more than that is wild speculation.
Well. . . I pretty much said what I was going to say, in another thread just now.
But anyway, they ain't goin' anywhere. That's all.
I thought your reply was worth repeating here.
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Originally Posted by Aus_Snow
I don't think anything 'needs to be done' or what have you. The numbers have fluctuated since the beginning, and will continue to do so. Game stores will still be around, for the foreseeable future, I suspect. Yes, that's conjecture, but no more so than any of the regularly scheduled repeats of doomsaying and all that stuff, from (often) the same rather small number of interweb voices, give or take a few.
Ryan Dancey, IIRC, is one such voice, foretelling imminent death and destruction (er, of industry/hobby, that is) at slightly irregular intervals for some time now (and we'd be talking years here). Please, correct me if I'm wrong there. And well, if I'm not, perhaps there's a millennium cult still hiring?
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