General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Seriously, I spent a goodly chunk of my D&D playing career in AD&D, and despite some of its uh, wonky mechanics, it has a flavor and tone no other RPG has yet to match.
The parts of 1E that I liked the best were the random rolls. Is the dragon sleeping? If he is, you can probably beat hi, if not, you are toast. Potion Miscibility was fun too,
I just think the dice had a lot more power in 1E than in later editions, and I must admit I kind of miss that. The sheer randomness of not knowing what was going to happen could cause a lot of fun situations around the table.
I have to admit that I wax nostalgic from time to time about the good ol' days. The amalgamation of AD&D and B/X D&D that I played as a kid was a lot of fun.
I get the biggest kick out of reading 1e modules, especially those written by Gary, Allan Hammack, and Dave Cook. The style in which they were written gives one a feeling that you're reading DM's notes, in a very good way. Those guys were the first "dungeon masters" to come around (along with Dave Arneson, of course), and you really get the feel for how they ran their games.
Since their "home campaigns" becameADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, then not only is it a kick-ass adventure that you're playing (either as DM or P-C), but it's a window in to how things work, and why.
Parenthetically, photostat copies of the manuscript rules were made, and when the commercial game was published, fans not willing or financially unable to expend the princely sum of $10 for the product did likewise, copying the material on school (mainly college/university) machines. We were well aware of this, and many gamers who had spent their hard-earned money to buy the game were more irate than we were. In all, though, the 'pirate' material was more helpful that not. Many new fans were made by DMs who were using such copies to run their games. - Gary Gygax
I just think the dice had a lot more power in 1E than in later editions, and I must admit I kind of miss that. The sheer randomness of not knowing what was going to happen could cause a lot of fun situations around the table.
I watched the FUTURAMA "moviesode" titled BENDER'S GAME last night. It was a love letter to Gary, and the entire thing hinged on just what you mention - the power of dice. Quite apropos that they chose the oft-neglected d12 as the die in question - not a d20, yet provided a wide enough range that a lone d6 or d8 couldn't.
Parenthetically, photostat copies of the manuscript rules were made, and when the commercial game was published, fans not willing or financially unable to expend the princely sum of $10 for the product did likewise, copying the material on school (mainly college/university) machines. We were well aware of this, and many gamers who had spent their hard-earned money to buy the game were more irate than we were. In all, though, the 'pirate' material was more helpful that not. Many new fans were made by DMs who were using such copies to run their games. - Gary Gygax
Yay for AD&D! One of my favorite RPGs and the one that I have played more than all the rest combined...
I'm currently running Temple of Elemental Evil for 7 players...
__________________ 'Can a magician kill a man by magic?' Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. 'I suppose a magician might,' he admitted, 'but a gentleman never could.'
Serious, serious kudos for being a 100% positive thread! Well done you sir! Keep it up.
We need a LOT more of these threads.
__________________ Currently running: Sufficiently Advanced over Maptool. Soon to change. If you'd like to join in a short 3-8 session campaign for various systems, drop by our forums.
I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
THE TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL is quite a module, that's for sure. I like much of it; some of it, especially the elemental nodes, I'm not particularly fond of.
I played in a good part of it a few years back and the then-DM cut the Elemental Nodes out completely and instead used some of his favorite modules (X1 THE ISLE OF DREAD and U2 DANGER AT DUNWATER stand out in my mind) sending us around Greyhawk looking for various bits and clues to stopping the evil.
Alas that group broke up before the conclusion.
I am DMing the module now.
After this I hope to send the party to the Lortmils on a run through WG4 THE FORGOTTEN TEMPLE OF THARIZDUN and S4 THE LOST CAVERNS OF TSOJCANTH. Really, those two modules together could have been sold as a boxed set with little more added and been just fine as a sort of GREYHAWK CAMPAIGNS or a set that focused on the abovementioned mountains. They're that good.
I also hope to cap the campaign off with Paizo and Rob Kuntz's most excellent MAURE CASTLE/WG5 MORDENKAINENS FANTASTIC ADVENTURE. I'm told Rob did some additional work on "side treks" for DUNGEON Magazine, and I'm entirely sure I can convert them to AD&D with little to no problem.
All of that is inclusive in the awesomeness that is AD&D and THE WORLD OF GREYHAWK. More to love.
Parenthetically, photostat copies of the manuscript rules were made, and when the commercial game was published, fans not willing or financially unable to expend the princely sum of $10 for the product did likewise, copying the material on school (mainly college/university) machines. We were well aware of this, and many gamers who had spent their hard-earned money to buy the game were more irate than we were. In all, though, the 'pirate' material was more helpful that not. Many new fans were made by DMs who were using such copies to run their games. - Gary Gygax
I can still feel the AD&D love too. I would still play or run it if I could find a local group. I offered to run OD&D/BD&D/AD&D or any retro-clone on our gameshop messageboard, and no luck. I have enough BD&D/AD&D gamebooks to supply a table of 5 players too.
So, where are you? I've an open seat if you're anywhere near Victoria BC...
I cut my teeth on AD+D a very long time ago, and have been playing or running (or both) the same system pretty much without a break ever since. Other editions or games come and go, and occasionally a good idea rears its head long enough to be snitched and adapted in to our system, but this is and always will be the game for me.
And best of all: the recent "retro-clone" resurgence has people writing and publishing system-compatible modules again!
THE TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL is quite a module, that's for sure. I like much of it; some of it, especially the elemental nodes, I'm not particularly fond of.
The nodes are a ways off, assuming we make it that far.
I've had to change up my original plan, though - I had started with an idea that all new PCs would start at 1st level. While it's a good goal, I don't think it will work for this specific circumstance. It would be fine for a full-scale campaign, but this game is specifically for playing Temple of Elemental Evil. As such, a near-TPK right before the party enters the Temple ... well, it kills off the whole campaign concept, sadly.
I think they learned their lesson from the near-TPK, and each of them is starting with about half what they had before - somewhere around 5000 xp at start.
I know, I know. I'm a wussy non-Gygaxian DM. But half the reason I'm running this is because I wanted to run Temple of Elemental Evil. The other half is because I wanted to run AD&D. If I'm not doing both, I won't be completely happy.
The nodes are a ways off, assuming we make it that far.
I've had to change up my original plan, though - I had started with an idea that all new PCs would start at 1st level. While it's a good goal, I don't think it will work for this specific circumstance. It would be fine for a full-scale campaign, but this game is specifically for playing Temple of Elemental Evil. As such, a near-TPK right before the party enters the Temple ... well, it kills off the whole campaign concept, sadly.
I think they learned their lesson from the near-TPK, and each of them is starting with about half what they had before - somewhere around 5000 xp at start.
I know, I know. I'm a wussy non-Gygaxian DM. But half the reason I'm running this is because I wanted to run Temple of Elemental Evil. The other half is because I wanted to run AD&D. If I'm not doing both, I won't be completely happy.
-O
You seem to have come to grips with the problem admirably; I think there's a juncture at which a near total party kill must be dealt with in an "efficient" manner. Certainly lining a number of 1st level characters up behind the survivor(s) where they can only hope not to be wiped out again is one way of doing it, but, as you point out, just prior to facing off against Iuz, Zuggmetoy, or any of the other powerful creatures in the Temple with one or two strong and a bevy of weak characters becomes wholly untenable.
In a long-term campaign, clearly, the survivors should take the new cohorts under their wings and find safer environs to delve! A trip downriver to N1 or the like would be in order (with of course the wise DM appropriately restocking the Temple dungeons, perhaps the surviving members meting out some vengeance against the innocent folk of Hommlet in the meantime); but again, I think you're going about it correctly.
Or, to turn an internet phrase...YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT.
Parenthetically, photostat copies of the manuscript rules were made, and when the commercial game was published, fans not willing or financially unable to expend the princely sum of $10 for the product did likewise, copying the material on school (mainly college/university) machines. We were well aware of this, and many gamers who had spent their hard-earned money to buy the game were more irate than we were. In all, though, the 'pirate' material was more helpful that not. Many new fans were made by DMs who were using such copies to run their games. - Gary Gygax
Or, to turn an internet phrase...YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT.
Oh, I feel definitely that it's right for my game.
It's just, you know, I had goals. One of them was, "I will be a bastard."
As far as I'm concerned, though, since I mercilessly killed off most of the party while half of them were pretend-petrified, and the other half were held, I think I've been a bastard quite enough.
For the record, I think I should point out that my "first" D&D wasn't any version of the rules; the closest would be the J.E. Holmes edit of "Basic" D&D (you know; blue cover, dragon menacing wizard and fighter...or vice-versa, anyway). I had no idea what D&D was and only the vaguest possible idea what a role-playing game was. I was sort of-kind of introduced to the concept by my schoolmates at the time (this was 1980/81), and I thought "okay, you buy these modules and you're all set..."
So I bought (or, rather, pestered my perplexed parents to buy me) B2 KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS - a fortuitous choice, because thanks to its inclusion of several key tables, and heaps of advice to the nacent DM, I was able to divine some kind of playability out of the thing, and so it was for quite a while until I had an amalgam of rulebooks, including but not limited to a DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE, MONSTER MANUAL, MONSTER MANUAL II and DEITIES & DEMIGODS, occasionally using my copies of the Dave Cook/Tom Moldvay edits of basic D&D as a guide for the things I was missing (e.g., a PLAYERS HANDBOOK.
I also didn't have many modules. The gratis copies of X1 THE ISLE OF DREAD and B2 KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS (now made confusing by the shift of rules from Dr. Holmes' version to Mr. Moldvay's edit), and a copy of A1 SLAVE PITS OF THE UNDERCITY.
I only played a tiny bit, and the group I did game with was, to be very frank, completely ed in the head - but that's a story for another time.
Point being, in '99 I'd gathered up what I'd missed out on and the things that I'd had, and I found it all as awesome as I'd hoped and remembered.
Parenthetically, photostat copies of the manuscript rules were made, and when the commercial game was published, fans not willing or financially unable to expend the princely sum of $10 for the product did likewise, copying the material on school (mainly college/university) machines. We were well aware of this, and many gamers who had spent their hard-earned money to buy the game were more irate than we were. In all, though, the 'pirate' material was more helpful that not. Many new fans were made by DMs who were using such copies to run their games. - Gary Gygax
I've never played AD&D, but owning the 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide, and I can say it is one of the best books for any game. Even beyond all of the tables and information, I've never read a game book written with such passion for the game and Dungeon Mastering. It's super cool.
__________________ IF IT EXISTS, NERDS WILL ARGUE ABOUT IT
I've never played AD&D, but owning the 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide, and I can say it is one of the best books for any game. Even beyond all of the tables and information, I've never read a game book written with such passion for the game and Dungeon Mastering. It's super cool.
Yep! It's a great collection of essays, more or less.
I hate to say that it's tough to actually learn the rules from it, and the organization is more stream of consciousness than topical, but it's one of those books where the author's personality and enthusiasm just kind of leap off the page. As I mentioned, I can't thumb through it and not want to sit down and roll some dice. It's got plenty of goodies, both insightful and downright bizarre.
Looking at it through a modern gamer's eyes, I'm glad I had OSRIC around to spell out the actual rules a little better, but nothing will ever really replace my demon-cover DMG with all my tacky little 80's stickers in it, collected from supermarket vending machines all through my childhood.
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