General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
So, quick question about D123 I'll ask here, since sadly Gary isn't around to ask anymore...
What gives with those hilariously bad PC names? (No offense intended to the ENWorld posters Philotomy Jurament - the best name among them, fwiw - or Fonkin Hoddypeak. But Fage the Kexy? Beek Gwenders? Really?) My own theory is that they were random keypresses with extra letters added in for pronunciation.
-O
I don't know If I would give Frush O'Suggil any grief about his name. An AD&D pregen fighter with 104 hp is sewious business.
AD&D is still my true RPG love, but I like a mixture of 1E/2E stuff. THAC0 is THE greatest gaming term ever. The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar started more than a couple of campaigns (although came after Keep on the Borderlands a couple of times) that somehow led to the Assassin's Knot and running away, only to be stranded on The Isle of Dread and experiencing the Dwellers of the Forbidden City before finding the way back to civilization only to be recruited to go Against The Giants. Later, they even discovered the nefarious Drow.
Still, thanks! I'll check that out when I get home.
Oops!
Let me 'splain . . . no, let me sum up: many Gygaxian names are anagrams, or based on actual people, but some, like Beek Gwenders, are derived from old English or (actual) thieves' cant.
__________________ On weird fantasy: "The Otus/Elmore rule: When adding something new to the campaign, try and imagine how Erol Otus would depict it. If you can, that's far enough...it's a good idea. If you can picture a Larry Elmore version...it's far too mundane and boring, excise immediately." - Kellri, K&K Alehouse
I agree with just about everyting the Delver has said. Yet I am not sure I agree.
The style, including writting and art. Yes.
The adventures. Yes.
The default world of the first three books. Yes. Best implied (or explicit) setting ever. Except for the ones I made myself. But it is still a little different (and bettre) then Greyhawk as would be published seperately at the the time. And of course different as it would evolve.
Rules reference. Hmmm.
And this leads to the problem. The rules as actually written. Just not that user friendly. Of course, you work around it, knowing what to ignore, what the problems will be (if you don't have training, find some other way to deal with all that treasure), how to play over the gaps. Its fine. But it lessons the love a little.
4E has rituals, use them, they're magic; Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then click; You can use “Earth” as a D&D setting; Origins of The Rouse; (look for it) The Rouse responds; (look for it) One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
What gives with those hilariously bad PC names? (No offense intended to the ENWorld posters Philotomy Jurament - the best name among them, fwiw - or Fonkin Hoddypeak. But Fage the Kexy? Beek Gwenders? Really?) My own theory is that they were random keypresses with extra letters added in for pronunciation.
Those names are drawn from archaic words that were once in use, and they all have actual meanings. This book will shed glorious illumination on them. (This was Gary's source when he created the names.)
__________________ "You want to play "Semantics and Lawyers"? Go ahead. We'll be busy kickin' ass and chewing Stygian Black Lotus- the best!" - Predavolk
Let me 'splain . . . no, let me sum up: many Gygaxian names are anagrams, or based on actual people, but some, like Beek Gwenders, are derived from old English or (actual) thieves' cant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philotomy Jurament
Those names are drawn from archaic words that were once in use, and they all have actual meanings. This book will shed glorious illumination on them. (This was Gary's source when he created the names.)
While I appreciate this, neither of these explanations makes the names less hilarious.
Thank you both for the explanations, though. That's one more question that's wracked my brain for two decades that I can cross off my lists!
And this leads to the problem. The rules as actually written. Just not that user friendly. Of course, you work around it, knowing what to ignore, what the problems will be (if you don't have training, find some other way to deal with all that treasure), how to play over the gaps. Its fine. But it lessons the love a little.
That's actually very true. On the other hand, this was partially countered by the fact that most folks "graduated" to AD&D coming from some version of the basic game... all the rules that I didn't fully understand in AD&D, I substituted with those from BD&D and I think that it was a rather common thing to do.
__________________ 'Can a magician kill a man by magic?' Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. 'I suppose a magician might,' he admitted, 'but a gentleman never could.'
While I appreciate this, neither of these explanations makes the names less hilarious.
I'd much rather play with Beek Gwenders of Croodle than Bob the Fighter or Icetongue Shadowbadfinger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obryn
Thank you both for the explanations, though. That's one more question that's wracked my brain for two decades that I can cross off my lists!
__________________ On weird fantasy: "The Otus/Elmore rule: When adding something new to the campaign, try and imagine how Erol Otus would depict it. If you can, that's far enough...it's a good idea. If you can picture a Larry Elmore version...it's far too mundane and boring, excise immediately." - Kellri, K&K Alehouse
That's actually very true. On the other hand, this was partially countered by the fact that most folks "graduated" to AD&D coming from some version of the basic game... all the rules that I didn't fully understand in AD&D, I substituted with those from BD&D and I think that it was a rather common thing to do.
I think it's safe to say I've only learned the actual AD&D combat rules this past year, in preparation for my ToEE game.
This is despite playing it for basically the entire 80's. I used it alongside B/X at first, and then used it alongside B/X/CMI later on. (Yeah, we had the first two in the three-hole-punched variety, and Companion and on in the box sets.)
While I appreciate this, neither of these explanations makes the names less hilarious.
Just so; I think the fact they actually mean something makes them even more amusing. (Gary told me I should have chosen one of the more amusing ones for my screen-name, instead of PJ.)
__________________ "You want to play "Semantics and Lawyers"? Go ahead. We'll be busy kickin' ass and chewing Stygian Black Lotus- the best!" - Predavolk
Just so; I think the fact they actually mean something makes them even more amusing. (Gary told me I should have chosen one of the more amusing ones for my screen-name, instead of PJ.)
I'll be honest -- all those names that are crazy to modern ears have really good company -- Ethelred the Unready ("wise counsel the uncounselled"), for instance, and I'm sure I'm forgetting more, but after a quick internet search, modern names like Rose Bush, Carrie Oakey, Stan Still, and others are all-too-unfortunately real.
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
AD&D is my game of choice. I've been running it for over 25 years, with the few interruptions.
That's awesome. I mean, as in, it literally inspires a sense of awe in me. Twenty five years. Man. I wish I'd been able to kick it off back in '81 and keep going...! I'll have to settle for...huh! Ten years this autumn now.
Parenthetically, photostat copies of the manuscript rules were made, and when the commercial game was published, fans not willing or financially unable to expend the princely sum of $10 for the product did likewise, copying the material on school (mainly college/university) machines. We were well aware of this, and many gamers who had spent their hard-earned money to buy the game were more irate than we were. In all, though, the 'pirate' material was more helpful that not. Many new fans were made by DMs who were using such copies to run their games. - Gary Gygax
That's awesome. I mean, as in, it literally inspires a sense of awe in me. Twenty five years. Man. I wish I'd been able to kick it off back in '81 and keep going...! I'll have to settle for...huh! Ten years this autumn now.
Corathon is not alone. Admittedly mine hasn't been the same campaign the whole time, but the same rule-set and in a few cases the same players since 1984.
(snip) Vault of the Drow was much more than an adventure. It was a campaign setting, filled with the seeds for scores of adventures. The merchant and noble clan rivalries, the unholy war, the denizens of Erelhei-Cinlu - just fantastic stuff.
You're right, I really should have called it a campaign setting. I am still astonished at how much information was compressed into such a short product. Gary's writing talents were spotlit with faerie fire in D3.
I'll be honest -- all those names that are crazy to modern ears have really good company -- Ethelred the Unready ("wise counsel the uncounselled"), for instance, and I'm sure I'm forgetting more, but after a quick internet search, modern names like Rose Bush, Carrie Oakey, Stan Still, and others are all-too-unfortunately real.
I quite like Hotspur. Straight out of history, and what a name for a knight.
__________________ "They've taken all the fun out of slaying things and stealing treasure!" - Bolt
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Yes. As much as I loved AD&D, the rules were slapdash at best. The example that sticks in my mind involved a player pulling an animal fom his bag of tricks and getting a boar. I cracked open the Monster Manual to boar so we could continue. The party was in the jungle and currently fighting snakes. The boar got bit by one of the smaller snakes and I asked the player to roll the boar's saving throw against the snake's poison. He tells me that the boar doesn't have to make the save. I scan the MM entry to make sure I didn't miss something and tell the lpayer to make the save again. No, the DMG p.XXX says the boar doesn't need to make the save. Sure enough, on the page the player quoted from memory, there was a random parargraph with its own heading buried amongst other non-related topics about animals with tough hides (the paragraph uses the boar as its example) not having to make saves against poison bite attacks. Why wasn't this in the MM entry for the boar?
(No offense intended to the ENWorld posters Philotomy Jurament - the best name among them, fwiw - or Fonkin Hoddypeak. But Fage the Kexy? Beek Gwenders? Really?) My own theory is that they were random keypresses with extra letters added in for pronunciation. 
4E has rituals, use them, they're magic;
Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then 
You can use “Earth” as a D&D 
The Rouse 
One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
This book 
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