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There are two types of psionic fans- those who loved it for the flavor, and those who loved it for the mechanics. The second group isn't necessarily going to leap for joy at a 4e style psionic class, except to the extent that they overlap with the first group and like the flavor as well.
I personally suspect this won't be a major problem long term, though.
Except for the Complete Psionic. That book....not so good.
*Hisssss*
We don't mention that book in polite psionic circles ;p
God, what a horrible, horrible book. Not just a bad psionic book, but an overall horrible book just flat out in general.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Don't think that book in polite psionic circles! Us Telepaths don't want the bleed from you thinking it.
hey I liked some of the book, the Lurk was a good idea, as was the ardent, even if in practice they fell apart, and there was like 2 prestige classes if I remember right..
hey..why are you looking at me like
((((HEad asplode scanner style))))
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Planescape
It should be given special award to Die Vecna, Die: a module that manages to trash no less than THREE different settings (Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Planescape) in the course of one module.
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Originally Posted by Remathilis
Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!
I liked some aspects of CompPsi, but found that Dragon #341- which came out about the same time- did a much better job with Soulknife-specific feats.
And of course, Hyperconscious was the (mind)bomb!
Not to sound like an infomercial, but if you liked Hyperconscious check out Untapped Potential by Dreamscarred. They've got two new base classes - a ranged attacker a'la ranger and party leader/supporter called Society Mind who is awesome - and a new type of psion meant to mirror specialist wizards. Oh, and variants of Wilder and Soulknife that don't suck horribly. It also has some fun PrCs, like Psychic Acrobat (If you ever play a city based game, throw in one of these. It's a match made in "THAT'S SO AWESOME" heaven) or Mavrick Voidshaper (Think of it as a more caster-esque Elocator). I recommend it strongly.
As for CPsi, while it had one or two things, these are one or two in a sea of bad. Most of the problems come from two sources: 1) They just didn't care (There's no errata for CPsi, and it needs it, so badly) or 2) they didn't know how psionics work. There's no way I can read the "errata" and think "oh my, these people understand psionics well!" I'd insert a complaint about having to pay for errata here, but the "errata" was so incredibly bad that I think 99% of people just ignore it for the trash it is.
I'm sorry, but if you're writing a book for psionics, I'd like to think that one of the main things you ensure is that the developers in question understand how the freaking mechanics work. "Hey, I can't help but notice that all these psionic abilities don't take an enemy's DR into account." "That's because magic doesn't." "Well, let's change it so magic still ignores DR, but psionic abilities don't!" Or how about "You know, I was playing a shaper the other day, and I summoned more then one creature!" "Yeah, that's how summoning works." "NOT FOR PSIONS, NOT ANYMORE!" The only two things that could've happened are 1) the people writing it simply didn't comprehend how psionics or, hell, all of D&D works (See also Practiced Manifestor and the "How the hell does this work?" nature), or 2) They hate psionics and made the book in an attempt to scare people away from it (See also the errata that provides hilariously unneccisary nerfs to abilities that were at times underpowered to begin with).
Smaller problems include not quite grasping that the game goes beyond level 3 (All of Lurk ability DCs are 10+int. Seriously. At level twenty, your DC is going to be, like, 18. Man, I wonder how many monsters will fail those saves?), that classes are meant to be good (Ardent and Divine Mind were originally one class. It was split because it didn't suck enough, apparently), that giving the customer something for his buck is a good thing (More then half the feats could all be combined into one, and I believe it's the shortest Complete X book that was made), and that editing is for losers (For the sake of the editors listed in the book, I like to think that they're lying and that they didn't actual edit it. The alternative, that they did edit it, but did that horrible of a job, is just too pathetic too imagine).
...Ahem. Long story short, I don't have high expectations for 4e psionics. CPsi was the last psionic stuff that Wizards printed, and you can see how much it's loved by people. The problem Wizards is going to go up against, is that there's not a lot of lukewarm people regarding psionics - most people either love it or hate it, and the ones that don't care either way usually didn't allow them in games anyways. You aren't going to win over the people who hate it, so your goal should be to retain the lovers and win over the lukewarm people. As I mentioned in my first post, doing that is tricky, and so far they've been recieving a lot of well deserved anger from psionic fans for CPsi and it's lack of errata, and for the Eberron book completely removing all psionics (Sarlona a place with rampant magic? Really Wizards? The big, main, number one psionics place in the setting...and you removed the psionics?)
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Eberron book completely removing all psionics (Sarlona a place with rampant magic? Really Wizards? The big, main, number one psionics place in the setting...and you removed the psionics?)
Does it specify what kind of magic? Because the Monk preview referred to "Psionic magic", so that could still fit, going from your choice of wording. I haven't read the book, so if it more explicitly describes the magic then ignore this.
Not to sound like an infomercial, but if you liked Hyperconscious check out Untapped Potential by Dreamscarred. They've got two new base classes - a ranged attacker a'la ranger and party leader/supporter called Society Mind who is awesome - and a new type of psion meant to mirror specialist wizards. Oh, and variants of Wilder and Soulknife that don't suck horribly. It also has some fun PrCs, like Psychic Acrobat (If you ever play a city based game, throw in one of these. It's a match made in "THAT'S SO AWESOME" heaven) or Mavrick Voidshaper (Think of it as a more caster-esque Elocator). I recommend it strongly.
I've heard of it- is there a hardcopy version? If there isn't, I won't bother.
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More then half the feats could all be combined into one, and I believe it's the shortest Complete X book that was made
In fact, that is one way in which the Dragon article beats CompPsi- instead of having 3 feats for 3 specific exotic weapon shapes for the mindblade, there is one feat that lets you choose any one melee weapon with which you are proficient and shape your mindblade accordingly...and can be taken multiple times. One set of text, one feat, that simultaneously covers the same ground as the CompPsi feats and vastly expands it.
Add the feats that let you make a Mind-Shield, multiple mind-daggers, and a Soulknife specific analog of the "Practiced" feats, and that article is a winner.
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Ardent and Divine Mind were originally one class. It was split because it didn't suck enough, apparently),
Actually, I like the Divine Mind. Its not perfect- it could have used some of the Ardent mechanics- but I'd happily play it.
I hope that at least one of the Psionic classes - probably the Psion - has an Augment ability, similar to Channel Divinity. Since it didn't show up on the Monk, I'm not too hopeful, but I would certainly like to see some form of augmentation appear in 4e (though obviously not like it was in 3.5, since that wouldn't fit at all for this game).
I've heard of it- is there a hardcopy version? If there isn't, I won't bother.
Afraid not. .pdf and softcover only. You really are missing out though, man :\
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In fact, that is one way in which the Dragon article beats CompPsi- instead of having 3 feats for 3 specific exotic weapon shapes for the mindblade, there is one feat that lets you choose any one melee weapon with which you are proficient and shape your mindblade accordingly...and can be taken multiple times. One set of text, one feat, that simultaneously covers the same ground as the CompPsi feats and vastly expands it.
Add the feats that let you make a Mind-Shield, multiple mind-daggers, and a Soulknife specific analog of the "Practiced" feats, and that article is a winner.
UtP has that and more ;p (such as a rule that mind blade progresses in PrCs that give increased manifestor levels, along with the variant soulknife). Add in Dreamscarred's Mind Blade Feats pdf (YEAH YEAH YOU WON'T BUY IT STILL) and you can actually make a pretty damn indeed good monk/soulknife...which is a personal favorite of mine
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Actually, I like the Divine Mind. Its not perfect- it could have used some of the Ardent mechanics- but I'd happily play it.
Eh, my gripe with Divine Mind and Ardent is that both are weak classes unless you really go out of your way to "optimize" them. They were supposed to be one class, but I'm guessing in crunch time they needed more filler, so they divided them, and the Divine Mind in particular suffered greatly from it. It's not a horrible class, but it just reeks of failed potential.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
I actually think that WotC is going to have an easier time selling psionics this time around. Historically, objections to psionics were primarily centered around balance and flavor; presumably, the psionic classes will be built similar enough to the other PHB classes to mitigate any balance concerns (real or imagined), and the separation of flavor from crunch (and official encouragement to reflavor or reskin powers) can mitigate flavor concerns (the official flavor should optimally appeal to traditional fans). However, more importantly IMO for selling psionics, is that WotC has strived to instill both a culture of "Yes" and a completionist mindset (either through appealing to a collector's instinct or via the comprhensive and integrated DDI applications) among 4e players and DMs. Not ghetottizing psionics in its own set of completely separated books with minimal future support can only help matters.
__________________ Veronica: Where's your brother?
Dick: I think he took Ghost World up to his room. They're probably up there making love. Or playing Dungeons and Dragons. Or both, at the same time. They're both, like, 12th-level dorks. I'm just sayin'
I actually think that WotC is going to have an easier time selling psionics this time around.
You forget that gamers are a stubborn bunch. Many will blacklist psionics based on how they felt about psionics in 2e. Or how they feel about psionics in fantasy. Regardless of what is actually in the book, many people will have all ready made up their minds before seeing it.
You forget that gamers are a stubborn bunch. Many will blacklist psionics based on how they felt about psionics in 2e. Or how they feel about psionics in fantasy. Regardless of what is actually in the book, many people will have all ready made up their minds before seeing it.
True, but the book won't be a standalone psionics supplement, will be fully integrated into the CB, and includes classes that were not originally psionic.
__________________ Veronica: Where's your brother?
Dick: I think he took Ghost World up to his room. They're probably up there making love. Or playing Dungeons and Dragons. Or both, at the same time. They're both, like, 12th-level dorks. I'm just sayin'
I actually think that WotC is going to have an easier time selling psionics this time around. Historically, objections to psionics were primarily centered around balance and flavor
Actually, if 3.5 taught me anything, it's that people will twist things any way they can to "prove" psionics were broken. 4e isn't going to be any different. I almost can't want to see 4e if JUST to see how people justify it as being broken!
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Actually, if 3.5 taught me anything, it's that people will twist things any way they can to "prove" psionics were broken. 4e isn't going to be any different. I almost can't want to see 4e if JUST to see how people justify it as being broken!
That's going to be funny given 4e's reputation for uber balance.
__________________ Veronica: Where's your brother?
Dick: I think he took Ghost World up to his room. They're probably up there making love. Or playing Dungeons and Dragons. Or both, at the same time. They're both, like, 12th-level dorks. I'm just sayin'
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