Adventures encountering a villian early, deflate him? Or give as is?

[JRRNeiklot]

Originally Posted by The Human Target

Getting TPKed by something you have no chance at all of defeating or watching NPCs (even ones you get to temporarily run) doesn't sound like much fun to me.

A 5th level party can't be of much help at all against a monster in the teens. So basically their advantage is that they found someone capable of actually completing the quest fro them. Which I guess could be kinda fun of you managed to trick a dragon or something. But teaming up with guards? Thats fun?

The alternate is fighting equal challenges at every level, every fight. You may as well stay first level and fight orcs, if everything is a balanced encounter.

It doesn't have to be atpk, there are always options. Run away, hide, trick the boss, bribe him or a minion, surrender and hope you can escape his dungeons later, etc.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by fba827

encountering a villian early, deflate him? Or give as is?

I normally don't reveal bosses early but if I do, rather than deflate them, I allow their arrogance to let PCs slip away or have the boss take off on more important business and leave behind a (what turns out to be, coincidently , appropriately leveled) detachment to deal with the PCs.

[loki8481]

if it were my campaign, I think I might throw in a twist -- maybe the royal guard were really on the Boss's side the entire time and their agreeing to help the PC's defeat him was part of a plan to engineer the Boss's escape from wherever he's stuck.

royal guard help the boss escape, the PC's are left to fight them instead, and you've opened up a whole line of palace intrigue to find out how the villain infiltrated the royal guard.

[The Human Target]

Originally Posted by JRRNeiklot

The alternativ is fighting equal challenges at every level, every fight. You may as well stay first level and fight orcs, if everything is a balanced encounter.

It doesn't have to be atpk, there are always options. Run away, hide, trick the boss, bribe him or a minion, surrender and hope you can escape his dungeons later, etc.

Thats not the alternative at all.

I'm all for having fights within the guidelines of difficulty.

An eighth level challenge for a 5th level party is fine and dandy.

A sixteenth level challenge for a 5th level party is not.

And yes, those are acceptable options. But when the monster is that difficult, if the PCs fail to do any of those things (which is essentially random and totally dependent on the monsters type and the DM plans), the party is pretty much guaranteed to be killed.

[Stalker0]

One thing about 4e is that high level encounters no longer usually equal quick tpks for the party like the days of old. While the party might not be able to win, usually the message gets sent across during the battle and they get the chance to run.

The fun for many people in the old "villain in a castle" scenario is the planning. How do we beat these heinous guy with what we got? In this case, the party has decided to try and recruit the royal guard. That's cool, now let them see how their plans have worked out.

Even if the party has a "boring" fight in that they don't contribute very much, they can feel cool and smart that their actions allows them to beat a guy they should have never beaten. For some groups that can be a whole lot of fun.

Or if the bad guy still wins, it drives home how strong he is, and will make defeating him one day all the more satisfying.