General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
See, I always thought Campaign Guides were there for inspiration only. I don't like the idea that someone else has a better handle on the world than I, the DM, do, and because of that I rarely use a campaign setting without making significant changes to suit my tastes.
I suppose that's what drew me to this Guide so much: it was a list of suggestions for a world, which I could take or leave, depending on what I needed.
If you want an extremely detailed setting, with everything spelled out correctly for you, than yes, this is a horrible guide. But I never wanted one of those.
General consensus from where I'm sitting seems to be:
If you wanted just a campaign setting, it's OK. A little sparse, sometimes poorly thought-out, but rife with inspiration and ready-made conflicts that you can plunk down in your games tomorrow. It's also good to rip ideas and conflicts from. It could have been better in this respect, but it does it's job, and is the only real 4e campaign setting released, so if you're a fan of the 4e, and you don't extensively homebrew, it does the job quite decently.
If you wanted the Forgotten Realms, it sucks. This is FR in name only, with all of your favorite elements stripped out, and some new outer space dragon world grafted onto it.
I, personally, like a lot of the changes. I liked it back in 3e when I ran an FR game where Cthulu came to town, made all the mages go insane, and ripped the world a new one.
But I do see why people who like FR don't like this new version. I wouldn't have sold my "blow up the Realms" idea as a new vision for the Realms, because it wouldn't give the people who liked it what they wanted, and the people who didn't like it won't want it anyway.
See, I always thought Campaign Guides were there for inspiration only. I don't like the idea that someone else has a better handle on the world than I, the DM, do, and because of that I rarely use a campaign setting without making significant changes to suit my tastes.
I suppose that's what drew me to this Guide so much: it was a list of suggestions for a world, which I could take or leave, depending on what I needed.
If you want an extremely detailed setting, with everything spelled out correctly for you, than yes, this is a horrible guide. But I never wanted one of those.
For what I want this is fantastic.
Yeah go for it, full of bugs ans stuff but good for inspiration.
Part of my biggest problem with it is everything cool has already happened and it all happened at about the same time. It reminds me of when DC did a "One Year Latter" and had all of these changes that were going to be explored in a weekly series called 52.
Well, 52 was almost at it's end and none of those changes wound up in the pages until a seperate mini, WWIII came out and then most of the changes wound up being very poorly received due to the way they were bum rushed.
Shades taking over Sembia? Done about 100 years ago.
Aboleth Soverignity? About... 100 years ago.
Thay becoming land of undead? About... yeah, 100 years ago.
Spellplauge? Yeah, about... 100 years ago.
Elves taking back Myth Drannor? Guess what? About... yes! 100 years ago!
Deities made and destroyed? Yeah... about... 100 years ago.
All of the things that should have been major plot points for the GM to use have already been done and have set up some weird thing where it's like, "Well, 100 years have gone by and NOW we need heroes."
It feels very much like setting up the bad guys to be even stupider than before. In theory, the gods of good and their various agents worked behind the scenes to help keep the setting normal but by taking out all of the big power players and providing a ton of badies, its like the old days when people used to wonder, "Why don't the Zhents take over. Why don't the Red Wizards rule?" But much much worse.
It also clings too far to the core. By making the dragonborn a core race and insisting that they had to have a place in the Forgotten Realms, they introduce them with a heavy hand (about... 100 years ago.).
Things that used to make the Realms stand out just a tiny bit from Greyhawk like Gondsmen and having guns? Nope. Gone. Apparently when the island of the old Gondsmen sank it took every shred of that knowledge with 'em.
Don't mistake my personal distaste for a completely negative view of this as a gaming product though.
For someone whose looking for a quick campaign to plunk down and build an extensive network up from, it's highly useful. Each section receives a limited amount of information and as there are no plans to produce any more print products (outside of novels like Swordmage, Corsair and others coming down the line), the DDI is your only support and this is a choke point of knowledge that should keep FR lawyers to a minimum.
On the other hand, it also renders a lot of old information completley useless while at the same time keeping such 'favorites' as Elminster and Drizzt alive. (And with Elves new aging methods, shouldn't even Drizzt be almost old now eh?)
I have the FRCG and enjoyed it, but I recall that Mulhorand was moved to the other planet. Has there been anything written on that other planet and what happened to Mulhorand and such since the move? I know most people didn't like those regions, but it was my favorite.
Well if you were to elaborate on what favorite elements you feel were kept in the FRCG 4e
Waterdeep
Candlekeep.
Skullport and Undermountain.
Calimshan and Calimport.
Silverymoon and the High Forest.
Menzoberranzan.
Thay and the RW.
Baldur's Gate.
Rashemen
Icewind Dale.
When I think of FR, that's all I think of. And it's all there.
I've just deleted 11 posts from this thread - because, as was mentioned in the first post, this isn't the place to debate the merits of different versions of 4e. Start other threads for that if you have to. It also isn't the place for snark either. (Snarks always turn out to be boojums anyway).
This thread sticks to the topic of "info on the new 4E Realms campaign Guide".
Thanks
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As one of the deleted ones, I would like to apologize to everyone for derailing this thread. It was not my intent to do so but I did. Sorry
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
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Well to be fair they had a alot of..lets just shove it in the realms going on in 2e. I myself did not mind as it was a big world, but YMMV
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
We ran a Maztica* campaign once. It was fun, but I had no clue it was Forgotten Realms. It seems well-suited to its own setting.
Regarding the 4E FR setting itself - I like the idea of the "returned Abeir".
*) Not only did we have a campaign, many years later I sometimes drove with my parents Daewoo Matiz to our game nights - it got quickly nicknamed as "Maztica" and presumed to be running on Human Blood. Well, considering the gas prices, that might have been an interesting alternative...
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I'm running one now. I actually kind of like Returned Abeir.
The reason I ask is I wonder what tone you used in the game. I imagine a Returned Abeir campaign would be exciting, with all of the mystery of moving to a new world. Did any of your characters interact with the traditional Realms? I think that area has the most fuel for a good campaign in FR.
The reason I ask is I wonder what tone you used in the game. I imagine a Returned Abeir campaign would be exciting, with all of the mystery of moving to a new world. Did any of your characters interact with the traditional Realms? I think that area has the most fuel for a good campaign in FR.
Can't help you there; the PCs are from Abeir, rather than characters who moved there. I've included references to Faerun, and the gnomish npc who accompanies the party is from there, but it's mostly all Abeir all the time.
As for tone, the game is centered in the Dusk Ports region, and I'm shooting for a mix of ancient Greek city states and Renaissance swashbuckling.
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