Forked Thread: Playing Mary Sue

[roguerouge]

The thread on defining Mary Sues included an interesting question as to whether PCs can be considered Mary Sues or proto-Mary Sues until they hit high level. There's an essay on that here: Beck

The authors delve into definitions of Mary Sue as one based on distortion of canon and character, one which has different effects based on whether we think of Mary Sues as literature or as play:

"To be more precise, the Mary Sue writer is playing an RPG of one. It is not the output—the narration—that is important to her. It is the simulation, the state of playing, a game of make-believe that is at the heart of the Sue experience. Clearly, we are talking about the realm of daydreams and personal fantasies. But in a fannish context, these fantasies often take place in Middle-earth (Tolkien), on Faerûn (Dungeons & Dragons: Forgotten Realms), or on the SSV Normandy (Mass Effect)."

"If Mary Sue fan fiction is an unintentionally misclassified game log, then looking at her from a gaming context should result in a kinder assessment. But unlike the Sue story, not all games are single-player experiences, and that introduces a new set of catches."

What do you think? Is the power gamer a Mary Sue? Are gaming stories perceived to be in that genre by nongamers?

Forked from: Mary Sue- Not sure I understand

[Leatherhead]

Originally Posted by roguerouge

What do you think? Is the power gamer a Mary Sue? Are gaming stories perceived to be in that genre by nongamers?

It dosn't really compare. Official modules establish canon, and as per those modules, PC's are the heroes. It dosn't distort any setting to have them be heroes, because that is what they are supposed to be. PC's are already taken into consideration and made a part of the settings, without being written into them.

Is the powergamer a Mary Sue? In general, no. Sueisim is a trait of roleplaying, not rollplaying. A Sue will try to be the child of Elminster to justify power, a powergamer wouldn't dare have any known relatives or friends, as they can be used against them, even if they are dead.

And I have no idea how a non-gamer would view a gaming story.

[S'mon]

A PC can't be a Mary Sue in a traditional RPG because the GM controls reality, not the player.

It can become possible in some Nar games (built to work from author-perspective, so too strong identification is problematic) or freeform Sims, likewise.

[A Passing Maniac]

Like S'mon said, since the GM usually controls things, players can't normally be Mary Sues. But there is one way for a player to have more control over the game, or more accurately over the GM, and thus approach Suehood: being the significant other.

I know most GMs are pretty fair to everybody when their spouse or girl/boyfriend is a player, but some of them -- and I've played in games with one or two -- just aren't. The GM lets them play some super awesome race or custom class the others weren't allowed, gives them special loot or more experience, pays far more attention to them than any other player, makes them the central figure in the plot, yadda yadda...

That's really the only comparable scenario I can think of.

[Somebloke]

I have been in a campaign where this happened, almost by accident.

It was a Conan campaign; one of the players had been addending every night and thus had reached a relatively higher levels than everyone else. This, coupled with some very lucky stat roles and a clever (rather than outright powergaming) player, meant that she was not only the best fighter but also the best negotiator, etc.

Compounded in this was the fact that since the player had been around for ever, they had the most in-depth backstory and the most impetus with the DM to run her goals for the campaign (Conan being a pro-active rather than re-active setting).

The end result of this was a character who could wade through enemies levelled for the rest of us without fear, set most of the agenda in the game, handled diplomacy better than the actual diplomat (she was playing a soldier at that) and finished off most of the big bads. She ended up being crowned Queen of Brithurnia in the campaign finalle, the last few sessions of which could be described as "Character x and friends".

To be fair- a) both the player and the DM were excellent (we played another game shortly after and there were no problems whatsoever) b) there were a lot of extenuating circumstances (the numbers heavily favoured such a role) and c) I joined very late but even so it really only became an issue for me in the last few sessions, which were part of an adventure arc that had been slowly building up for ages.

I suppose the moral here is that Mary Sues can happen to anyone.

[Akaiku]

Sue's, as a general rule, have no weaknesses. Actual game systems tend to frown on that setup. You really need complete override control of reality to pull of a Sue true to form.

[Cadfan]

I don't think it really matches. The Mary Sue isn't just a character who perceives herself to be perfect in every way, its a character that everyone in the universe agrees is absolutely perfect. Every guy falls for her, every girl wants to be her, even the ones who don't like her- they're just jealous.

For that to happen in an RPG, you need the cooperation of all the other players and the DM.

[roguerouge]

What else do people think about the article, overall?