4e / GSL July and beyond AV2 items

[avin]

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20090706

"Adventurer's Vault 2 puts forth a few advances in the way that magic items are presented and conceptualized."

I don't own AV1 but judging by the way Rat Killer's Cloat is presented am I wrong supposing that AV2 items will have more fluff added to their description?

If this is the case I'll consider buying the book.

[Oompa]

I think the fluff is only added for the preview..

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It almost appears so, because I can otherwise see no difference.

[AllisterH]

Originally Posted by avin

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20090706

"Adventurer's Vault 2 puts forth a few advances in the way that magic items are presented and conceptualized."

I don't own AV1 but judging by the way Rat Killer's Cloat is presented am I wrong supposing that AV2 items will have more fluff added to their description?

If this is the case I'll consider buying the book.

Well, the ratcatcher's cloak certainly has way more fluff than any item in AV1, in fact, it has way more fluff than any item in the previous editions, Magic Item Compendium and certainly approaches the level of fluff of a random item from the Encyclopedia Magica.

So if you're looking for fluff with your crunch, this is more up your alley although it does beggar the question how many people _THIS_ approach will annoy since there _ARE_ people that were quite happy with the lack of fluff in Av1 (you get more bang for your buck).

Although I wonder if this applies to all items or only certain items get this treatment (the Space-Bending Weapon might not be fully previewed...)

[Jack99]

If we get fluff text + 2 adventure hooks for every single item, I will be very, nay extremely pleased with AV2 - almost regardless of the quality of the items.

[avin]

Originally Posted by Jack99

If we get fluff text + 2 adventure hooks for every single item, I will be very, nay extremely pleased with AV2 - almost regardless of the quality of the items.

Me too. It adds value to me, as many history hooks are born from that fluff. Otherwise I'll just wait CB to be updated.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Jack99

If we get fluff text + 2 adventure hooks for every single item, I will be very, nay extremely pleased with AV2 - almost regardless of the quality of the items.

Me Three.

That said, I'd still be happy with 1/2 the items receiving that kind of treatment.

[fba827]

i'm the sort that likes to add my own fluff and often even change the physical description. but having said that, i don't mind the additional fluff (it might inspire me for other things) but i hope it's not for every single item (that would annoy me; just add it when it has a good story, not add one because you feel you have to add one thus put it something for the sake of it) and instead just has the additional fluff for a selection of them.

[Silverblade The Ench]

FLuff is VITAL to D&D and lack of it my one big nag with 3 and 4th ed.
For example, the classic Gith Civil War and hate of the Illithids is a true cornerstone of D&D, and helps make D&D what it is!

I don't play "D&D the bloody boring card game". The lore of D&D is a major part of it's charm.
More good fluff = good for D&D!

[CapnZapp]

"More than just a continuation, though, Adventurer's Vault 2 puts forth a few advances in the way that magic items are presented and conceptualized.

Before we start showing off a few of these items in full,..."

(my emphasis)

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I say "Meh". I Don't need so much fluff for items.

I would like it more of these were all artifacts or something like the 3E Weapons of Legacy or Earthdawns magic items...

[Stalker0]

I'm okay with fluff, but I would be happier with items that had more properties instead of expensive items that only have one okay daily. That space bender weapon doesn't get my hopes up.

[JoeGKushner]

Originally Posted by Mustrum_Ridcully

I say "Meh". I Don't need so much fluff for items.

I would like it more of these were all artifacts or something like the 3E Weapons of Legacy or Earthdawns magic items...

Ditto.

One of the things that 3e and 4e seem to have done is 'killed' material like Blackrazor and Gorgorin the Shatterer. Unique outs item, factory cookie cutter magic items in.

Now I'm not saying we didn't see some greats in 3e with Weapons of Legacy or that 4e's artifact system won't provide some greats but it's mighty thin in comparisson to the overhwhelming amount of level X = Y bits.

[AllisterH]

Originally Posted by Stalker0

I'm okay with fluff, but I would be happier with items that had more properties instead of expensive items that only have one okay daily. That space bender weapon doesn't get my hopes up.

I think all the "fun" items in 4e are going to be the artifact items..they provide an easy out for DMs AND designers in that "so what if they are unbalanced, they don't stay with the players forever" whereas as seen with things like Reckless, players won't give them up without a fight....

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Silverblade The Ench

For example, the classic Gith Civil War and hate of the Illithids is a true cornerstone of D&D, and helps make D&D what it is!

Funny thing is, I have no clue what you are talking about there! I mean, I know what Githyanki are, and Mind Flayers, but I guess I've been missing that particular cornerstone of D&D.

As to the general topic of fluff (and maybe this should be forked?) I love it- as inspiration, as a framework. Sometimes I need a paragraph, sometimes a sentence or two will do. But at a certain level, it becomes mind numbing and a creativity killer for me (like most 2E era campaign setting products).

So far I feel 4E products have done a fantastic job for giving me enough ideas/frameworks to get me inspired and take things in my own direction (whether it's a plot hook, magic item, monster, Villain, adventure idea, cosmology element, campaign/geographical area, etc etc). I much prefer 4Es approach over the prior editions in this regard and this is probably my favorite feature of the new edition in the grand scheme of things.

[Silverblade The Ench]

JeffB,
*jaw drops!* where you been, man?!
go buy yerself "The Illithiad", and play Neverwinter Nights 2, will fill you in on a lot

Githyanki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the literature released for the game, the ancestors of the githyanki (the "forerunners") were once slaves to the illithids, a race of powerful telepaths who mentally enslaved sentient humanoids to work as the backbone of their vast worlds-spanning empire. It is believed these slaves were originally humans transformed through selective breeding. Eventually, these slaves developed mental resistance to their masters' mind control and, under the guidance of their leader Gith, revolted, causing the downfall of the illithid empire.

Gith, however, was not satisfied with the destruction of the illithids alone, and sought to spread the war to any race that could potentially enslave her people again. She was opposed in this endeavor by the followers of Zerthimon, who believed that such a path would lead their people to corruption and ruin. Thus, at the Pronouncement of Two Skies, the gith race fractured into the githyanki and the githzerai, the latter founding their own domain in Limbo. The githyanki hate the githzerai because their betrayal allowed the surviving illithids to retreat to isolated subterranean strongholds; the two races have been at war ever since.

After settling her people on the Astral Plane, Gith is said to have visited the Nine Hells, where she made a pact with Tiamat. In exchange for Gith's servitude, the githyanki could call upon red dragons anywhere in the multiverse as allies. Gith's advisor, Vlaakith, became the new queen of the githyanki, and all her heirs were named after her.

Dwelling in the timeless Astral Plane, the Githyanki inhabit numerous fortresses constructed from materials imported to the Astral Plane as well as cities built atop god-isles, the vast stone corpses of deceased gods. Their capital and largest city, Tu'narath, is built on the god-isle of a deceased power known only as "The One in the Void."

that kind of fluff is awesome, to me
look, a DM can have whatever the heck he wants for story for the gith and illithids, but D&D as a WHOLE, needs a coherent link, like it or not, across much of it, to bind it into "D&D", ya know?. If all you have is monsters it is not any damn good, you need a hook, a feel, a story...

this is why I vastly preffer the 2nd ed monstrous compendiums because of their great fluff (so I still keep them!). 4th ed monster mmanual stat layout is the best, ever (followed by 2nd ed). But 4th ed sucks for lack of fluff.

[Dice4Hire]

Well, I for one hope there is not extensive fluff like that in AV2. I personally would rather have triple the item choices.

But the preview is very disappoiinting. I've heard AV2 will feature implements an such, and to get a couple generic weapons (including the space one that stinks in spades) is disappointing. I would have preferred showcasing something with some zip to it.

[GMforPowergamers]

Originally Posted by Jack99

If we get fluff text + 2 adventure hooks for every single item, I will be very, nay extremely pleased with AV2 - almost regardless of the quality of the items.

Originally Posted by fba827

i'm the sort that likes to add my own fluff and often even change the physical description. but having said that, i don't mind the additional fluff (it might inspire me for other things) but i hope it's not for every single item (that would annoy me; just add it when it has a good story, not add one because you feel you have to add one thus put it something for the sake of it) and instead just has the additional fluff for a selection of them.

I would be very upset myself if it was even close to half the items had that level of flavor...I would say the most I could handle and consider the book usable is 1/4 of the book had any of this stuff. I mean really that rat catcher armor would be close to half a page. AV1 can have 8-10 items on a page, having two would feel real cheap.


a good set up would be 5 or 6 items with full write ups, 12-30 with 1 or two sentice flavor txt, and the rest just like AV1...

[Zaukrie]

I'd love that much fluff. Less items, with more story and history, would be better for my DM style. But, I can see where others would rather have more stuff, and less fluff.

[avin]

I'm trying a "guess" exercise here but people who like more items than fluff are mostly players?