General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
1. Timing - I have a mildly chaotic schedule. If it's a game on a weeknight, especially when my kids have school, that's a problem.
2. People I don't get along with at all. If there's one or two that aren't my first choice, okay. As long as the group as a whole is cool and the game is fun.
3. DMs who just don't provide a good time. If the adventures are consistently lame, or the DM can't meet their obligations, or some similar issue, I will leave.
That's about it. Gaming is good. More gaming is more good.
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Most of Ari's match mine as well. I don't mind drinking as long as folks don't actually get drunk, and I'd rather not have people smoking at the table while I'm playing.
I love gaming, and I choose not to play with people acting like inconsiderate jerks. One thing that has driven me away from a game is a player who is out to have fun at the expense of the other players. This is the thief who steals all the treasure and ambushes the party while they're hurt; the character who insists on splitting off the party and then demands large swathes of the DM's time and attention; the person who endlessly badgers the group about not liking the chosen system, just so they can play one he likes and no one else does. An inconsiderate or self-involved DM can be just as big a problem.
In comparison, I'm really easy about what game I'm playing. I learn things even while playing games whose rules I don't necessarily care for.
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I simply prohibit anybody who has a reputation for showing up stoned or drunk all the time to games. Back in college, some players would show up high on drugs like lsd, cocaine, hash, etc .... or they were really really drunk. For the most part, they were completely disruptive and the game hardly got anywhere.
- Small children present, unless kept in a separate room and not requiring attention from the DM or any player
You'd hate my house then. I DM and my wife is in charge of the children while I game. But they always can come see me and are encouraged to do so. They also are allowed to socialize with my players and their "aunts" and "uncles" encourage them to do so. Anyone who can't handle hanging out with my kids can't hang out with me, they are a part of my life. Now, if they are being disruptive they will be scolded and sent away.
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Originally Posted by Aus_Snow
Smoking indoors, people being actually full-on drunk (as opposed to tipsy, mellow, etc.), anything illegal going on at that time and place (there might be exceptions, but none come to mind right now), abusive behaviour, and asshats in general I suppose.
I won't play in a game where role-playing (things like "speaking in character") is forbidden. I'm not interested in a minis tactical game masquerading as an RPG.
There are games like that? Wow, never heard of banning roleplaying at a roleplaying game. Yeah, that would deal be a deal breaker for me.
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I won't play with people smoking inside. I used to, and I can't tolerate it anymore.
Yeah, I've got a few gaming friends that smoke, but they know to step out for smoke breaks.
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I won't play with people who are drunk or stoned. A beer or two is one thing, but if it starts impeding your ability to take the game seriously--or, alternatively, causes you to take it too seriously--then it's impeding my ability to enjoy the game.
Yeah, I've gamed with alcohol, and I had a GM once that was a far better bartender than a GM (her games were mediocre at best, the drinks she served were incredible), but we weren't getting drunk, but I personally don't want to be where illegal drugs are in use (I don't want any trouble).
For me, the real deal breakers:
1. GM's who don't know what they are doing, and aren't trying to learn. We were all novices once, but I've played under a few GM's that didn't know the rules, just made up new rules to replace them as they went, then got angry with you when you didn't know their rules they just made up or that you tried to educate them on what the rules were. This also goes for GM's that are trying to make the game into a novel (run away!), let their SO play some uber-PC clearly superior to the rest of the party (or have a pet DMPC played by their SO that runs right into "Mary Sue" territory), or is running on such a tight railroad that there really is no way off and you might as well be handed a script to read from.
2. Games that go way, way too late or start way, way too early. I had a GM once that ran games that were supposed to start at 2 PM and go until 10 PM, a decently long 8-hour session. The problem is, she started as soon as most of the PC's were there, or she felt like starting (which typically meant she'd start the game at noon or 1 PM), and she wouldn't stop until she felt she was done, which meant the games often dragged on until after midnight.
3. Nothing happening. I've played in games where the GM spent more time focusing on petty inane parts of life than adventuring. I'm not there to spend an hour roleplaying talking with a baker about the weather while waiting for the mornings bread to finish baking, consoling a random scullery maid whose daughter died of plague, or being chatty with the NPC cab driver on a long drive (yes, I've had all of those happen!). If there are sessions where I spend hours playing and not a single thing happens with regards to plot, something is critically wrong.
3. I'm no "canon lawyer", but if a GM is going to deviate seriously from the established setting if it's one I am very familiar with (Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Star Wars, Star Trek. . .) I'd appreciate plenty of advance warning, or if the GM doesn't know the setting well and is changing things because they are sticking with what they know and I know the canon better, I can deal with it, but I'd at least like to know what to expect so I don't go in talking about Spaarti Cylinders with a Star Wars GM that never read the Thrawn trilogy, or talking about Karsus's Folly with a Realms DM that doesn't know anything about the Fall of Netheril.
4. I expect the GM to know that gaming is a hobby, not my life. If I have a family emergency or something work related come up, I may have to bow out for the night, and don't take it personally. I enjoy gaming, I like gaming and talking about gaming, but I won't sacrifice family or career for it.
Well, I'm a smoker but we even go outside at my house. Having some beers is fine, as long as people aren't getting drunk. Wanting to ban relationships is weird to me, as I've always gamed with couples and never had any problems. So what's my no-goes?
- Social retardation. I know, our hobby is beloved by the socially maladjusted and I do have a lot of nerd sympathy. But it does reach a point where someone's inappropriate, rude behavior will interfere with my enjoyment of the game. So yes, I've had to tell people "I'm sorry, but you're just not cool enough to play Dungeons & Dragons with me."
- Refusing to speak in character. This is a hypothetical one, because I've never encountered it. But according to the internet some people play roleplaying games without ever speaking in character, which is the activity I most associate with roleplaying. To each his own, but it would weird me out and I'd find it very disruptive.
- Railroading. When I play, I don't want to play 'guess what the GM thinks is the only solution to this situation'. Give me a problem and let me and mine figure out a way to deal with it, and give us the consequences. I'm more of a character-driven kind of guy, which means I really don't care about your plot or your setting except as it lets me explore my character. (And I take the same attitude when GMing).
- Excessive powergaming/rules lawyering. I don't care how much damage you do, how awesome your 'build' is, or whatever. It really isn't interesting and if you derail the game going on about it, or constantly arguing with the GM over rules minutae we're going to have a problem.
I think more important than GM, setting, or system is being on the same page as the people you're gaming with. There's nothing wrong with people who fall into the above categories (except the first one, in which case you got bigger problems than getting into a roleplaying game), but that doesn't mean they'd have a good time with my group.
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I banned Fireball because it meant I couldn't have any monster under 4th level survive past round 1. Too power trippy? I might change my mind.
You articulated a reason unrelated to your own aesthetic preferences. Even if I completedly disagreed with your reasoning, I wouldn't call it power tripping.
My ire is reserved for people who ban a thing just because they don't like it, without any legitimate, believable explanation as to how banning the thing would lead to a better game.
My ire is reserved for people who ban a thing just because they don't like it, without any legitimate, believable explanation as to how banning the thing would lead to a better game.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. On a completely unrelated note, I won't play in a game where people discuss 5e.
So I was thinking, what things cause people not to play in some games?
My personals include:
Drinking alcoholic beverages or smoking at games.
Having romantic relationships between players/GMs
Playing longer than scheduled.
I'm sure there's others, but those are my three. Try not to make anything personal in your responses, there's no need to be derogatory.
Here's mine:
1. DM's who want to run "fast and loose" which usually translates, "I've never taken the time to read the rules, so I'm just going to wing it." Read the rules for the game you're going to run or break out a boardgame. While I won't rule lawyer a game, I want to be able to do some things that are normal for a game, like roll the appropriate dice for iniative, do the range of allowed actions, etc. For example, we had a DM at a con who did it "fast and loose" on D&D 3.0. So we all know that init is d20, put it order, and then standard action/move action. The DM wouldn't pay attention and would cut a player's action out as he switched gears. The same player would declare a normal action like retrieve an item from pack (move action), but the DM ruled he couldn't do it in while there was a combat going on, etc., etc.
2. DM's who make up adventures on the fly. Sure, there are DM's who claim that they are awesome story tellers, have created interwoven plots, and have made their players have their characters to feel rage, anger, a sense of justice, loss, etc. far better than any movie or book. That's great, but all the DM's I've played with would blow 2 hours to role play buying a suit of armor, encounters are random and don't make any sense, there's no sense of plot, and just wandering around lost. Write some notes, create a plot, pick encounters that make sense and get going.
3. Playing favorites. I had a DM who I regularly played RPGA classic campaigns with at a bookstore and everyone had to rate the other players. Two players were always rated the highest (given 5's) and everyone else was rated very low (given 1's and 2's). Consistently. I think only one session did I score a "3" average on one of my games out of that group.
Wanting to ban relationships is weird to me, as I've always gamed with couples and never had any problems.
Well, for me, it's not a matter of wanting to do it, but a matter of experience with them making it one of the things I feel necessary to change. Including one case where one person slept around with several persons involved in the group. Not good. (And no, I wasn't involved myself, I was just at the table and didn't want any part of it.)
I suppose I should have clarified that I would consider a marriage (or other such committed relationship)to be slightly different (though still a concern, as it can go poorly) than what I was talking about when I said "romantic relationships", but I didn't want to go into exhaustive detail and list all my reasons. Heck, I might even make an exception for a short-term deal to let somebody's partner try the game. But I wouldn't want it in a long term campaign.
I'll also pass on an ERPG session, though that may be a case of walking away for a break rather than leaving for good. Or it might be the prelude to the kind of thing I'd rather avoid.
I don't have a list of categorical 'no-goes'. I won't game with jerks, but that goes without saying, except that I just said it, and, in fact, will ammend to it this:
My experience is that jerks come in all stripes, shapes and sizes. Some are bellicose drunks, others are teetotalers. Some are in volatile relationships, others are saccharine lovebirds overly-enamored of public displays of affection. Still others are the President-for-Life of the Lonelyhearts Club (tin-pot dictator uniform and all!). Some smoke. Some smoke pot. Some ingest ingestibles even more questionable, legality-wise. Some play OD&D. Others Vampire the Masquerade. Some even play My Life with Master games and Nicotine Girls!
In short, the only category that matters is 'jerk'. And you can find them in every other category. So there really isn't a shortcut available. You're stuck having to evaluate the person, not their kith, kin or kind.
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I pretty much want and expect everyone to be there both to have fun, and to help everyone else have fun.
If you're not there to have fun, or you're there to have fun at the expense of others' fun, you won't game with me for very long. If my game isn't enjoyable for the whole group (myself included), something has gone wrong and should be fixed ASAP.
Honestly? DMs who willfully ignore the Rules As Written because they disagree with them, and bring up "Well, all of the rules are technically optional - it's all up to the DM" as a valid excuse for it. I don't mind house rules to fix things that are over/underpowered, but the rules aren't guidelines, they're RULES.
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1. Wizard costumes. If you can't come to the game without your wizard hat, then don't come at all. I don't care if you can pull a rabbit out of the dang thing, I have a DMPC that I need to run and you're distracting me with your 4 ft long fake beard.
2. Rubbing your hairy beer belly in my face. We all have em, so I can sympathize. But geez, when I'm trying to move minis around the battlemat, please don't lift your shirt and rub your stomach next to my face while you're leaning near me to see where I'm moving the minis.
3. Nudists. I understand we were born that way, but you didn't learn to play that way. Shirts are required at my table. I don't care if you aren't wearing pants since we're sitting down and it isn't noticeable. But I'm the only one that can go completely nude. What do you think DM Screens are for?
4. Discussing politics at the table. Since I'm the DM, my opinion is the only one that matters. If you feel the need to tell me that women are equal to men & they deserve all the same rights, then you can stay home and make protesting banners. Everyone knows women are much more superior to men and deserve more rights than us. So I don't need to hear your idiotic viewpoints at my table. *looks over shoulder to see if wife is still watching me type*
Evil campaigns - I've never seen one end well. More power to you if you enjoy playing in them and running them, but I'll sit them out.
No Role-Playing - Every group may have a different opinion on what makes good roleplaying, but I will not play in a group that refuses to roleplay.
The GM is the enemy (with provisos) - I've been in games where the GM is the enemy. It can be quite fun and often creates strong bonds between the players. Unfortuantely, I've been in games where the GM screws over the group and has no intention of giving the players a fighting chance. "You lose all equipment automatically. Even the stuff you had hidden in secret pockets. Oh, and you are stripped of all your spells and memorized spells. I win."
Backstabbing Players - Groups that are very tolerant of players who regularly try to screw over the rest of the group.
Anarchists - This one is new for me, unfortunately: Groups that tolerate or accept players who regularly try to thwart or ruin the adventure but trying to destroy all clues, kill all people the others want to question, and so on.
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Last edited by Dragonbait; 7th July 2009 at 06:42 PM..
I pretty much want and expect everyone to be there both to have fun, and to help everyone else have fun.
This.
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Originally Posted by Obryn
If you're not there to have fun, or you're there to have fun at the expense of others' fun, you won't game with me for very long. If my game isn't enjoyable for the whole group (myself included), something has gone wrong and should be fixed ASAP.
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