Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

[Jeff Wilder]

Just out of curiosity for the gaming-and-booze-don't-mix folks ...

Let's say you're invited to the game. Gm you like, game system you like, everything sounds swell.

Do you ask, "Is anybody going to have a drink during the game?"

Do you ask, "Is anybody going to get drunk during the game?"

Now let's say you attend the game, and it's a lot of fun. Midway through the first session, a guy cracks open a beer.

Do you leave right then and there?

Do you ask him to stop drinking?

What if he goes on to drink, say, a beer an hour?

At what point do you leave?

If you don't leave, have you decided not to return?

Sorry for all the questions, but I just find this really interesting. (FWIW, if someone lit a cigarette at the table, I'd politely explain that I can't be (and don't want to be) around it, and immediately gather my things and leave.)

[Dedekind]

We actually enjoy beer enough at our games that we started a beer club. Every game two people are responsible for bringing a beer they haven't tried. Then we judge them after the game is over. Most of them aren't very good (no one has tried them for a reason!) but we have found some gems.

Of course, I don't require it and would respect a group's request not to have any alcohol.

[JRRNeiklot]

The beer is not the problem. If a person is disruptive to the game HE is the problem. If he's only disruptive when he drinks, HE is still the problem. He shouldn't drink if he knows he's gonna be an ass.

[Michael Silverbane]

Originally Posted by Invisible Stalker

I'm a teetotaler and I don't want to be around anyone that's drinking.

I think that a lot of the 'beer hate' is some version of this. Some folks don't engage in [X Activity], nor do they associate with people who do. I don't really see anything wrong with that, though I do engage in [X Activity]...

[Chainsaw]

The guys (and gals) in my old 4E LFR group often have beer, wine or some festive drink (margaritas on May 5, etc). Not everyone drinks, but no one's ever had a problem with it - maybe we just have a good group (no mean, loud, irritating drinkers).

I think once or twice someone drank too much and couldn't add up the dice, but it was more humorous than anything.

If you're hosting strangers, I could definitely see drinking rules getting tricky... Sure, I might know my friends are fine, but what about the new guy? Is he going to go ballistic in my living room after two glasses of wine? Touchy situation I guess. No hard and fast rule there. Just have to go case by case, I think.

[Bumbles]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wilder

Do you ask, "Is anybody going to have a drink during the game?"

Do you ask, "Is anybody going to get drunk during the game?"

When there's someone who doesn't know them already, I make my conditions known in advance, and ask them if they have any. I even ask if all the other players are aware. I even prefer to have it in writing along with the precis of the game itself(setting, allowed rule books, character generation methods) so there's less argument about it.

And there's other important questions like "Does anybody have any allergies?" or "Is anybody expecting to have to change the times they will be available?" which it really helps to answer first. Nothing that derails a game more than bickering before it truly begins.

Now let's say you attend the game, and it's a lot of fun. Midway through the first session, a guy cracks open a beer.

Do you leave right then and there?

Do you ask him to stop drinking?

If the person is unfamiliar, then I say "Excuse me, but I thought we'd agreed to not drink at these games" and if they say "Oh I'm sorry, I forgot" and put up their drink, well, then it's cool. If there's an argument, well, I pass on that and I leave rather than prolong it. Will I never return? Not if the conditions I agreed to play under remain unmet.

And if I'm hosting, it won't even get that far, because somebody won't normally get in the door with alcohol or cigarettes. I ask before they come in.
And there's a sign.

Liars are just not acceptable. I would much rather have somebody say "Oh, I forgot we weren't supposed to drink or smoke" or even "Y'know, I had a bad day, I really need a drink" as the first can be forgiven, the latter, well, I don't mind somebody skipping out if they tell me. We can run a one-shot or something.

[malraux]

I appreciate the honesty of making clear that alcohol is unwelcome, I just don't get it. I mean, I dislike soda. Not just drinking it, but its larger societal effects (related in with our agriculture policy). But that doesn't mean I have to dislike someone because they have a soda. I don't see how someone having alcohol (in reasonable amounts) affects you anymore than someone having soda affects me.

[Bumbles]

Originally Posted by JRRNeiklot

The beer is not the problem. If a person is disruptive to the game HE is the problem. If he's only disruptive when he drinks, HE is still the problem. He shouldn't drink if he knows he's gonna be an ass.

Absolutely, but what can I do? I've found people to be less than responsive to the suggestion of "Hey, you have a drinking problem" so I go with what I can control, which is the slightly less offensive "Nobody gets to drink" which at least doesn't single anyone out.

That way I don't feel like I'm judging anyone.

Originally Posted by Michael Silverbane

I'm a teetotaler and I don't want to be around anyone that's drinking.
I think that a lot of the 'beer hate' is some version of this. Some folks don't engage in [X Activity], nor do they associate with people who do. I don't really see anything wrong with that, though I do engage in [X Activity]...

This sort of thinking can be applied to both sides.

[RefinedBean]

Just a public service reminder:

There is no such thing as badwrongfun.

There IS such a thing as badwrongbeer.

I like to have a few beers sometimes, but mainly I don't drink during gaming. These days I can really only drink microbrews unless I'm being held upside down over a keg, so it helps save money, and many DMs and players I game with aren't comfortable with drinking at the table.

[Lord Mhoram]

In our groups case (7 people)

4 of us are teetotalers for faith based reasons (our church requires us to be such*)
2 do it for health reasons.
1 drinks twice a year.

As I host, and I will not let any kind of alcohol into my home (nor anyone under the influence the same) it's sort of moot point, but the group is okay with that.


* Even before I joined that particular faith, I was a teetotaler. My father was an alcoholic, and it destroyed our family. So my views on alcohol are shaped by that.

[JRRNeiklot]

Originally Posted by Bumbles

Absolutely, but what can I do? I've found people to be less than responsive to the suggestion of "Hey, you have a drinking problem" so I go with what I can control, which is the slightly less offensive "Nobody gets to drink" which at least doesn't single anyone out.

That way I don't feel like I'm judging anyone.

I think "No being an ass at the game," is less offensive than "No drinking at the game." But I'm weird that way. I don't even drink, but I think banning someone from having a couple of beers is no different than banning cokes or water, or wearing purple. Ban the bad behaviour not inanimate objects.

[Lanefan]

Some of what's been written here is...well, scary is the only word that leaps to mind. I feel like I've time-warped to the prohibition-crazed 1930's.

Don't want to drink at the game? Fine.

Don't want me to drink at the game? Not fine. Not because I insist on drinking at every game I go to, but because the game to me is a place to relax (particularly if I'm not the DM) and sometimes relaxing includes a few tall cool ones.

And as for drinking causing players to make "bad decisions" in the game, that's a feature, not a bug. Bad decisions inevitably lead to much more fun and adventure...and risk...than good safe boring decisions, so bring 'em on! Don't take it so seriously!

Lan-"they need to market a beer to gamers. It'd be called 'Gonzo'."-efan

[Mallus]

Originally Posted by Invisible Stalker

I'm a teetotaler and I don't want to be around anyone that's drinking.

Why? If they're not being rude or loud or disruptive, why would it faze you?

I think my annual trip to Red Lobster is about it.

Have you gone yet this year? If not, consider finding a nice, local, independent seafood restaurant and have dinner there. Consult Zagat's or Yelp or ask some co-workers for suggestions.

If you only dine out once a year it shouldn't be at Red Lobster. Those chain restaurants are like feeding troughs for the long pigs...

(can you tell I didn't enjoy my last meal at Red Lobster)

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by malraux

I appreciate the honesty of making clear that alcohol is unwelcome, I just don't get it. I mean, I dislike soda. Not just drinking it, but its larger societal effects (related in with our agriculture policy). But that doesn't mean I have to dislike someone because they have a soda. I don't see how someone having alcohol (in reasonable amounts) affects you anymore than someone having soda affects me.

This strikes me as a somewhat elaborate form of 'just not getting it'.

If it helps to clarify, I know some people who will not knowingly and willingly go anywhere near the consumption of alcohol. . . and they have their reasons. Personal reasons, so I'm not going to go into detail, especially here of all places. But they are real, valid, and arise from genuine life experiences.

I doubt it is that freakishly rare, either.

[Lord Mhoram]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wilder

Do you ask, "Is anybody going to have a drink during the game?"

Do you ask, "Is anybody going to get drunk during the game?"

If I thought about it, I would. But I likely wouldn't have thought to do so.

Now let's say you attend the game, and it's a lot of fun. Midway through the first session, a guy cracks open a beer.

Do you leave right then and there?

Do you ask him to stop drinking?

I wouldn't do either, but at the end of the session, I would pull the GM aside and thank him for his time, and explain that I am really uncomfortable with drinking at a game, and as that is obvisouly something no one else has a problem with, so I won't be back to the group. All very politely.

If the drinking were everyone, and I was expected to participate, then I would leave right away. As politely as I could.

[Bumbles]

Originally Posted by malraux

But that doesn't mean I have to dislike someone because they have a soda.

Saying this tells me one thing...you think people are being disliked.

That's not the case. It's not that simple. All I'm seeing is that you're not getting what I've said.

I don't see how someone having alcohol (in reasonable amounts) affects you anymore than someone having soda affects me.

Because not everybody has the same idea of what's reasonable or not, so rather than engage in what I see as fruitless arguments over it, I set it at zero. I feel it's less likely to be taken as a personal judgment. Some people may still take it that way, but I can game without them.

[JRRNeiklot]

Minor nitpick - Prohibition actually lasted from 1920-1933, so it was mostly the roaring 20s. Sorry, I'm anal that way, lol.

[Invisible Stalker]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wilder

Sorry for all the questions, but I just find this really interesting. (FWIW, if someone lit a cigarette at the table, I'd politely explain that I can't be (and don't want to be) around it, and immediately gather my things and leave.)

It's all part of the DM interview process, I'm going to know before I ever walk in there.

I'm as tolerant of drink as you are of cigarettes.

I'm far less tolerant of stuff like marijuana and chewing tobacco.

[Mallus]

Originally Posted by Aus_Snow

I doubt it is that freakishly rare, either.

Probably not.

But neither is it common for embarrassing, inebriated behavior to break out every time adults drink some wine, say while they're at a proper restaurant. My wife and I can attest to this. We dine out all the time, in Philadelphia, no less, a city not known for its couth .

[Bumbles]

Originally Posted by JRRNeiklot

I think "No being an ass at the game," is less offensive than "No drinking at the game." But I'm weird that way. I don't even drink, but I think banning someone from having a couple of beers is no different than banning cokes or water, or wearing purple. Ban the bad behaviour not inanimate objects.

Well, you're still not allowed to be an ass at the game, but there's already enough argument over that which I can't avoid, that I prefer to take as many points of conflict out of it as possible. Drinking, among others, is one I can avoid. And for what it's worth, I do know folks who ban drinking in some rooms of their houses, so it's hardly unimaginable to me that somebody would possibly bring that up in a gaming situation. Spills can be really bad to some collectible material, y'know? Now if you are specifically banning water, I'd like to see your reason, as I see none. At least with alcohol there are known effects which I would be very surprised if anybody was unaware of them. If they are unaware, then they probably aren't informed enough to responsibly drink. So I would expect to see some articulation of a reason if you said nobody can drink water, everything else is fine. And well, I don't know about the color purple, but dress codes are hardly rare in the world. Sometimes for health reasons, sometimes for the consideration of others. In fact, somebody else already mentioned it as one of theirs.