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What about those hunting packs (whose name I forget), where the members get progressively stronger as you kill other members, until the remaining few are nigh invulnerable?
I think about that notion quite often, but have never really gotten around to actually fleshing it out in game terms.
The Huntsmen of Annuvin -- a very cool idea. Lewis Pulsipher did a 1e AD&D interpretation that appeared in Dragon magazine No. 40 (August 1980). And I did my own 3.5e conversion of Pulsipher's take.
Wow.... OK, then. As a kid, I read as much Moorcock (Elric, Corum, Hawkmoon), Leiber (Fafhrd & Grey Mouser), Donaldson (gotta love Thomas Covenant), and Eddings (Belgariad, Malloreon) as I could, but strangely never heard of the Chronicles of Prydain.
I may have to find the first one on ebay and read it.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
I had forgotten all about the Huntsmen until you mentioned them. Okay, those might have been scarier.
Back to the OT though, whichever episode of the Atomic Array podcast covered the PHB2 had one of the designers mention Batman as an influence on the Avenger as well.
Judging the Chronicles of Prydain by the Disney version of The Black Cauldron is like judging D&D by the Dungeons & Dragons movie with Marlon Wayans and Jeremy Irons.
Alas, I live in the wrong hemisphere for fantasy literature. The first fantasy books I read were the Dragonlance Chronicles, imported from Portugal, back in 1990. The only Lieber I read were the Epic Comics adaptation by Chaykin and Mignola (also imported), I never read any Moorcock, and I only read Howard for the first time two years ago, when they released two volumes of his Conan stories here.
I did manage to read lots of Ravenloft, Eberron and Song of Ice & Fire, though.
Judging the Chronicles of Prydain by the Disney version of The Black Cauldron is like judging D&D by the Dungeons & Dragons movie with Marlon Wayans and Jeremy Irons.
To be fair to them, neither Marlon Wayans nor Jeremy Irons were the worst parts of that movie.
I just finished reading the entire dying earth series (a couple of days ago). Great series.
I'd say it's really not taken whole cloth from Vance's dying earth. It's only vaguely taken from it in most respects. You essentially get two elements - memorization of spells, and naming of spells after famous spell-makers.
The rest seems to be mostly or entirely ignored. The power of spells (every wizard can kill any other non-wizard with a single spell unless they have magic to protect themselves), the nature of spells as living things that are wrestled with, their origin as demon-powered, the use of Ioun stones to further power spells themselves, etc... none of that actually was carried over to D&D.
So yeah, inspired by some Vance stuff, but not wholly carried over in my opinion.
Well, I guess that's why Grimstaff mentioned the "first 10 pages". I would say the first two stories, "Turjan of Miir" and "Mazirian the Magician" are the most influential. These are the early stories that leave out the demon and ioun stone stuff.
But I agree with the power level. D&D's "Prismatic Spray" is much less potent than Vance's, but that's understandable if you deal with a game, where certain death or certain survival are less fun. The element of guessing the right spells for the day is certainly there, and what you see is general purpose spells. Turjan, for instance, selected "The Excellent Prismatic Spray, Phandaal’s Mantle of Stealth, and the Spell of the Slow Hour" before he went on a dangerous journey. So, yes, you get two very high power spells and one medium, and that's about it. It's similar to D&D, but to make the game work, the power levels had to be adjusted from the literary source.
I think my geek card will be revoked. Not only have I had not read The Chronicles of Prydian, I have not read Howard's Conan, Jack Vance, or L. Sprague de Camp (I tried the Complete Compleat Enchanter and put it down),
I think my entire list of fantasy books read (excluding Greek Mythology) is the following:
Lord of the Rings
The Hobbit
Chronicles of Narnia
Once and Future King
Book of Merlin
Le Morte d'Arthur
Idylls of th King
Riddle Master of Hed Trilogy
Guardians of the Flame (first three or four books)
Myth Adventures (entire series)
Xanth (the first six books)
Jack of Shadows
Chronicles of Amber (first five books)
Eye of the Dragon
The Misenchanted Sword
Magician: Apprentice
Mists of Avalon
Dragonlance Chronicles
Dragonlance Tales 1-3
The Prism Pentad (first three books)
Icewind Dale Trilogy
Dark Elf Trilogy
Saga of Old City
A little bit of Fritz Leiber's Fahfrd and Grey Mouser
A little bit of the Elric cycle.
On my book shelf to read are the first three Shanarra books, the first three Hambly Darwath books, Salvatore's The Spear Wielder Trilogy, and the Hardy's Master of Five Magics.
__________________ "The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook
" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook
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Last edited by Greg K; 13th July 2009 at 05:04 PM..
Wow.... OK, then. As a kid, I read as much Moorcock (Elric, Corum, Hawkmoon), Leiber (Fafhrd & Grey Mouser), Donaldson (gotta love Thomas Covenant), and Eddings (Belgariad, Malloreon) as I could, but strangely never heard of the Chronicles of Prydain.
I may have to find the first one on ebay and read it.
The Chronicles of Prydain are marketed for young adults. The five books include a Newbury Medal and a Newbury Honor. Along with Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising Sequence, they played a critical role in igniting my love for fantasy as a kid. I think the books are still worth reading as an adult, although at the time I considered myself to be "graduating" when I picked up the Dragonlance Chronicles.
BTW, the Chronicles of Prydain are still in print. Amazon has the first book in paperback new for $7, used for under a $1.
Last edited by Pseudopsyche; 12th July 2009 at 09:14 PM..
Wow.... OK, then. As a kid, I read as much Moorcock (Elric, Corum, Hawkmoon), Leiber (Fafhrd & Grey Mouser), Donaldson (gotta love Thomas Covenant), and Eddings (Belgariad, Malloreon) as I could, but strangely never heard of the Chronicles of Prydain.
I may have to find the first one on ebay and read it.
I'm pretty sure they're in print.
His Westmark trilogy is also pretty good, and surprisingly dark.
Brad
__________________ "Your taste buds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!"
What about those hunting packs (whose name I forget), where the members get progressively stronger as you kill other members, until the remaining few are nigh invulnerable?
Sort of an explicit version of the Inverse Ninja Law?
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When I was younger the Cauldron-Born were the freakiest villains I had ever read in a book.
Oh man, I haven't read any of these books in ages but just your mention of the Cauldron-Born gave me a bit of a shiver. I need to reread them to see if they hold up.
__________________ Iain Fyffe
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What about those hunting packs (whose name I forget), where the members get progressively stronger as you kill other members, until the remaining few are nigh invulnerable?
I think about that notion quite often, but have never really gotten around to actually fleshing it out in game terms.
Sword & Sorcery did a monster like those in one of their monster compendiums. I'll see if I can find it, if you want.
On a (somewhat) related note to the topic at hand, where should I start with books about Fafhrd and Grey Mouser? Are there any omnibuses I should look for?
Just get Lankhmar Book 1 and go through Lankhmar Book 5. Book 6 - 8 came later, and I only sporadically read them over a few years.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
Now I'm worried I can't properly play D&D. The only fantasy books I've ever read were some R.A. Salvatore stuff in middle school, The Hobbit, and the first half of the Lord of the Rings. I am now concerned that I am doing it wrong.
I tried to read Wolfe's New Sun series, but didn't get too far. I've been meaning to read Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea books (which no one has mentioned, I don't think. I have no idea how D&D they are), but have yet to get started. That's all I've got for fantasy.
Maybe I need to read more.
__________________ IF IT EXISTS, NERDS WILL ARGUE ABOUT IT
Just get Lankhmar Book 1 and go through Lankhmar Book 5. Book 6 - 8 came later, and I only sporadically read them over a few years.
I'll second the first part of this--get books 1 through 5.
Avoid anything later. Especially avoid the last book. Seriously. Pretend it's the Black Plague, carrying a gun. It's not only awful, it'll seriously damage your appreciation for the earlier stories if you let it.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
I'll second the first part of this--get books 1 through 5.
Avoid anything later. Especially avoid the last book. Seriously. Pretend it's the Black Plague, carrying a gun. It's not only awful, it'll seriously damage your appreciation for the earlier stories if you let it.
Now I'm worried I can't properly play D&D. ... Maybe I need to read more.
All joking aside, I doubt very much that you're playing the game "wrong" because you're not familiar with a lot of the fantasy genre. If you're enjoying the game, you're playing right.
But I think you'll enjoy it more if you've read more--and I think, if you're the type to enjoy D&D at all, you're probably the type to enjoy the reading for its own sake. So I wouldn't say you ought to feel obligated, but I'd certainly recommend it.
(Of course, like anything else, there's a lot of fantasy that's crap, too. And tastes differ. So don't take anything you hear as holy writ. )
(Except for my own books. You can take those being worth buying as gospel. )
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
It's nice to be hearing some talk about the Chronicles of Prydain here. For me, it was the series of books that bridged the gap between reading the Chronicles of Narnia when I was in elementary school and reading all of Tolkien's works when I was in high school. Which, interestingly enough, means I probably read it around the same time that I was working my way through all of Asimov's stories.
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